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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 17, 2023 22:07:26 GMT
I figure I would continue this thread from the OS. It had a huge amount of posts.
So, now that they have found classified documents at Biden's home (Because he's that forgetful grandpa who forgets where he puts important things) how does one go to saying its not the same when Trump took documents to Maralago or whatever-its not important enough to remember to spell?
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Post by scenario on Jan 18, 2023 1:49:31 GMT
The difference is that with Trump, everyone knew he had the documents and he lied and fought to keep them for some unknown reason.
With Biden, some of the documents were locked in secure government office and some in boxes in Biden's home. No one asked for them until someone stumbled on some of them. I doubt Biden did a whole lot of his own packing. It sounds like they got mixed in when they packed up Vice President Biden's office.
To me the problem was that someone who was authorized to have highly sensitive documents kept them for 5 years and no one noticed.
Public libraries have better security.
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Post by nombrecomun on Jan 18, 2023 1:51:07 GMT
I figure I would continue this thread from the OS. It had a huge amount of posts. So, now that they have found classified documents at Biden's home (Because he's that forgetful grandpa who forgets where he puts important things) how does one go to saying its not the same when Trump took documents to Maralago or whatever-its not important enough to remember to spell? HAHA!!!! That's awesome that you reused the title. I had to do a double take for a quick second. To your post, yeah...this will take the wind off the sails of Trump's investigation. Republicans will make sure they target this and amplify it. This will be like Hillary's 'Benghazi' until the next big thing comes around. The only difference I see is that Trump and his camp purposefully did not want to cooperate with their investigation. The National Archives had to go knocking at his door. In contrast, from what I understand, it was Biden's staff that found these docs. They reported it and cooperated fully with the investigation. Is lack of cooperation against the law? I don't know but if it isn't then it's practically the same issue. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 18, 2023 14:16:00 GMT
See, I knew it was something like that. I've already corrected my supervisor about the issue. Basically Trump is obstructing while Biden is cooperating. And as far as I know, they haven't found anything that wasn't supposed to leave the room they were in.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 18, 2023 16:29:30 GMT
I figure I would continue this thread from the OS. It had a huge amount of posts. So, now that they have found classified documents at Biden's home (Because he's that forgetful grandpa who forgets where he puts important things) how does one go to saying its not the same when Trump took documents to Maralago or whatever-its not important enough to remember to spell? Because: 1) Biden's people did exactly what they were supposed to do when they were found. (i.e. secure them and call for them to be retrieved) 2) The National Archives didn't know that they were missing and spend the last two years trying to get them back. 3) There's a difference between "Classified" and "Top Secret/SCI" material. neither is a good thing to have out in the open, but there's also a world of difference between the two. 4) Biden didn't steal them on the way out the door. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Jan 18, 2023 18:32:12 GMT
I figure I would continue this thread from the OS. It had a huge amount of posts. So, now that they have found classified documents at Biden's home (Because he's that forgetful grandpa who forgets where he puts important things) how does one go to saying its not the same when Trump took documents to Maralago or whatever-its not important enough to remember to spell? Because: 1) Biden's people did exactly what they were supposed to do when they were found. (i.e. secure them and call for them to be retrieved) 2) The National Archives didn't know that they were missing and spend the last two years trying to get them back. 3) There's a difference between "Classified" and "Top Secret/SCI" material. neither is a good thing to have out in the open, but there's also a world of difference between the two. 4) Biden didn't steal them on the way out the door. I agree with everything you said. I just count on the Republicans to concentrate on the fact that there were classified docs to either minimize Trump's and/or call out hypocrisy in order to cancel the issue altogether. And media will eat it up because it makes news. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 18, 2023 19:32:35 GMT
Because: 1) Biden's people did exactly what they were supposed to do when they were found. (i.e. secure them and call for them to be retrieved) 2) The National Archives didn't know that they were missing and spend the last two years trying to get them back. 3) There's a difference between "Classified" and "Top Secret/SCI" material. neither is a good thing to have out in the open, but there's also a world of difference between the two. 4) Biden didn't steal them on the way out the door. I agree with everything you said. I just count on the Republicans to concentrate on the fact that there were classified docs to either minimize Trump's and/or call out hypocrisy in order to cancel the issue altogether. And media will eat it up because it makes news. They absolutely will, that goes without saying, but, honestly, it's all part of a larger problem: namely that classified documents can end up here, there, and everywhere, and it seems to be the job of no one to know who has what and collect them. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 18, 2023 19:49:21 GMT
One thing is for certain. The Archives needs to keep better track of these documents. I mean hell, if public libraries can keep track of thousands of patrons, the Archives can keep track of a few people borrowing documents.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 18, 2023 20:06:10 GMT
One thing is for certain. The Archives needs to keep better track of these documents. I mean hell, if public libraries can keep track of thousands of patrons, the Archives can keep track of a few people borrowing documents. There needs to be a chain of custody no different than for a criminal investigation. Theoretically, there's SUPPOSED to be, but in practice, people seem to be able to do with the stuff whatever they want. At this point, I think there needs to be guys with a list. "As of 1.18.23, you personally have docs C-23, X-12, AAB-262, and BXY-27. This is the weekly check to make sure that they are still in your possession, and you are aware of their whereabouts." There's way too much "honor system" going on here. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jan 19, 2023 22:30:16 GMT
Ohh, my holy Surak, what a douchebag Trump is!! That's it. I just hate his guts.
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Post by scenario on Jan 25, 2023 0:59:12 GMT
So Trump took documents and refused to give them back.
Biden took documents and cooperated.
Pence took documents and cooperated.
Why is the person responsible to keep track of the documents not doing so?
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 25, 2023 3:27:16 GMT
So Trump took documents and refused to give them back. Biden took documents and cooperated. Pence took documents and cooperated. Why is the person responsible to keep track of the documents not doing so? There's SUPPOSED to be a chain of custody with all of these things, but either there isn't. Or there is and no one cares. At this point I'm in favor of a new bureaucracy whose sole purpose is to track who has what and officers empowered and required to go to whomever's home to say, "You have documents A, B, G, and X in your possession at this residence according to sworn affidavit. I'm here to confirm that you have them here, and in their entirety." "If you cannot produce them, a search team will be here to help you look in 20 minutes. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 25, 2023 21:30:15 GMT
So Trump took documents and refused to give them back. Biden took documents and cooperated. Pence took documents and cooperated. Why is the person responsible to keep track of the documents not doing so? There's SUPPOSED to be a chain of custody with all of these things, but either there isn't. Or there is and no one cares. At this point I'm in favor of a new bureaucracy whose sole purpose is to track who has what and officers empowered and required to go to whomever's home to say, "You have documents A, B, G, and X in your possession at this residence according to sworn affidavit. I'm here to confirm that you have them here, and in their entirety." "If you cannot produce them, a search team will be here to help you look in 20 minutes. SWEET BABY YODA!!! My Wife said the exact same thing, almost word for word a few days ago, even the A,B,G, and X part. It's kind of eerie. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 25, 2023 22:10:19 GMT
GMTA  |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 26, 2023 22:15:41 GMT
I think what really has me at a loss, is that I work the Circulation desk at my public library and know about keeping track of things. It really feels like our worst maintained sections are way better than Classified documents are being handled.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 26, 2023 23:46:48 GMT
I think what really has me at a loss, is that I work the Circulation desk at my public library and know about keeping track of things. It really feels like our worst maintained sections are way better than Classified documents are being handled. And the Archives just asked former POTUS's and VP's to double check their homes, etc. FFS, the government seems to know where nothing is. |
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Post by scenario on Jan 27, 2023 0:33:03 GMT
My guess is that at some point the job to keep track of documents was eliminated to save money.
The U.S. used to have a department that made sure companies fulfilled their contracts. It cost $10 million a year and saved $100 million. Reagan shut it down to save money.
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 27, 2023 4:10:12 GMT
My guess is that at some point the job to keep track of documents was eliminated to save money. The U.S. used to have a department that made sure companies fulfilled their contracts. It cost $10 million a year and saved $100 million. Reagan shut it down to save money. of course he did. This is the same man who ended free college in California. I hate how much praise he gets. |
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Post by Yorick on Feb 4, 2023 8:09:19 GMT
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 4, 2023 14:08:22 GMT
Its a real difficult decision. Anything we do or don't do in response gives China intel on us. I say we launch a spy balloon of our own in the South China Sea. And make sure the balloon part is a giant Winne-the-Pooh bear. As for the Chinese spy balloon, everyone in range, I may break the rules here by saying look up and make vulgar gestures toward it.
Why don't we just shoot it down? Doing so would give China intel on our defense response and capabilities. Also, the technological payload that its carrying, is the size of 3 buses. You don't want something dropping that heavy from that altitude at full speed of gravity. you could take out a whole city block with that much kinetic energy.
I also noticed Fox news is spinning it that "Biden refuses to shoot down Chinese Spy Balloon". No, its the PENTAGON saying, "It would be a very very bad idea to shoot that down".
Besides, they're not getting much more information than Russia did when we had the open skies treaty.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 4, 2023 17:01:58 GMT
 I wondered how long it'd be until there was a "Prisoner" reference...
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Post by scenario on Feb 4, 2023 18:15:19 GMT
The problem with shooting it down as it sets a precedent. International law allows spying if you are high enough. That's how satellites work. The US flew U2s over Russia for decades. The balloon is high above where any plane flies. China has claimed half the China sea as its airspace. International law says it isn't and the U.S. military flies in it regularly. China could start shooting down American planes to press its point.
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Post by Yorick on Feb 4, 2023 19:44:23 GMT
International law allows spying if you are high enough. That's how satellites work. The US flew U2s over Russia for decades. The balloon is high above where any plane flies. China has claimed half the China sea as its airspace. International law says it isn't and the U.S. military flies in it regularly. This quote from The Prisoner often comes to mind when observing political or international affairs: Number 2: When the sides facing each other suddenly realize that they're looking into a mirror, they'll see that this is the pattern for the future. Number 6: The whole Earth as the Village? Number Two: That is my hope: What's yours? Number 6: I’d like to be the first man on the moon. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Feb 4, 2023 23:29:33 GMT
Well.....it was shot down with a missile.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 6, 2023 2:21:44 GMT
What with republicans that any time some sort danger appear in the horizon they just want to shot it down? Shouldn't the art of politics be more subtle than that? Asses the situation, consult with professionals, approach the problem carefully. No, their political theory is more like "look, is moving, kill it!!!"
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Post by scenario on Feb 6, 2023 2:31:38 GMT
But if their opponent kills it, they are wrong.
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Post by nombrecomun on Feb 6, 2023 4:33:27 GMT
But if their opponent kills it, they are wrong. And if their opponent doesn't kill it, they are still wrong. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 6, 2023 5:09:52 GMT
But if their opponent kills it, they are wrong. And if their opponent doesn't kill it, they are still wrong. That's the joy of the GOP at this point: since the party no longer stands for anything, they can take any position that serves. Then change their minds in 20 minutes. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Feb 16, 2023 18:09:15 GMT
I thought I'd post this here since it lives under the Trump umbrella anyway. thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3857535-bolton-says-haley-is-really-running-for-vice-president/I'm gonna call this the 'Kamala Effect' except I can't see this working for Haley considering what the Republican Party has become. I can't see them actively wanting a brown(slightly brown?) woman with ties to a non-white culture and religion. On any other regular universe, Haley would be a fine Republican candidate....but post Trump? I can't see it. The only way she becomes a VP nominee is if Trump or DeSantis want her to be. That means her presidential candidacy needs to be very watered down avoiding any real attack against Trump similar to Pence's milquetoast comments. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 16, 2023 18:55:18 GMT
I thought I'd post this here since it lives under the Trump umbrella anyway. thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3857535-bolton-says-haley-is-really-running-for-vice-president/I'm gonna call this the 'Kamala Effect' except I can't see this working for Haley considering what the Republican Party has become. I can't see them actively wanting a brown(slightly brown?) woman with ties to a non-white culture and religion. On any other regular universe, Haley would be a fine Republican candidate....but post Trump? I can't see it. The only way she becomes a VP nominee is if Trump or DeSantis want her to be. That means here presidential candidacy needs to be very watered down avoiding any real attack against Trump similar to Pence's milquetoast comments. She has no chance at POTUS and MAYBE as VP, but I really don't see that either. I feel like he's soured on her and I don't know how she helps Ron DeCultureWar at all, what with being brown AND having removed the Confederate flags from SC state buildings. I don't see how she comes out of this with anything other than a mountain of debt. |
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