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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 10, 2023 17:51:50 GMT
It is one of the highlights of S3. For me though, fully half the season runs from groan-worthy, to unwatchable. Not half the season...just Spock's Brain, Plato's Step Children, Exit to Eden, The Empath, Requiem for Mesulah, Turnabout Intruder, and....ok yeah Half the season...forget I even tried to argue.... |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 10, 2023 19:03:56 GMT
Is this where we write the last TOS ep or movie we watched or the last we watched of any series of the franchise?
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 10, 2023 19:19:24 GMT
Is this where we write the last TOS ep or movie we watched or the last we watched of any series of the franchise? Yes. Anything Trek that you watched is fine.  |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 11, 2023 19:16:36 GMT
In anticipation of (or "in fear of") "Picard" new season debut, I rewatched "Sub Rosa". After all these years and rewatches it still remains a stinker. The whole idea of whole planet terraformed to resemble classic Scotland is just so ridiculous. The episode is an absurdity, something living between a gothic farce and a teenager erotic fantasy. I'll say this, Frakes direction is apt, there is a flow to it, a narration that makes the plot shortcomings somehow bearable.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 11, 2023 19:48:00 GMT
In anticipation of (or "in fear of") "Picard" new season debut, I rewatched "Sub Rosa". After all these years and rewatches it still remains a stinker. The whole idea of whole planet terraformed to resemble classic Scotland is just so ridiculous. The episode is an absurdity, something living between a gothic farce and a teenager erotic fantasy. I'll say this, Frakes direction is apt, there is a flow to it, a narration that makes the plot shortcomings somehow bearable. Honestly, given the level of tech they have, terraforming the place to be Scotland II is the least ridiculous part of the whole thing. Frakes does the best he can with the script, but it's just so stupid. I think it would have worked slightly better if the dead grandma rising up was cut, and, honestly, the whole thing about him being tied to the magic candle makes me groan. Just have him as the energy creature who found, way back when, that he could feed off the women in Bev's family. Turn it into romance that becomes obsession that turns again when she realizes that what he wants her for is sustenance, no matter how much he might have "loved all of them." I know that's sort of what they were already trying, but the whole Young Adult Gothic Novel approach just adds layers of stupid. It's a childish presentation. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 11, 2023 20:51:25 GMT
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 11, 2023 21:10:58 GMT
I quite liked the follow-up novels, too, as I recall. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 12, 2023 1:00:02 GMT
I quite liked the follow-up novels, too, as I recall. I liked the first one better than the second, which tried too hard to be 'epic adventure,' instead of the more character-driven feel of the first one. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 12, 2023 1:34:08 GMT
In anticipation of (or "in fear of") "Picard" new season debut, I rewatched "Sub Rosa". After all these years and rewatches it still remains a stinker. The whole idea of whole planet terraformed to resemble classic Scotland is just so ridiculous. The episode is an absurdity, something living between a gothic farce and a teenager erotic fantasy. I'll say this, Frakes direction is apt, there is a flow to it, a narration that makes the plot shortcomings somehow bearable. Honestly, given the level of tech they have, terraforming the place to be Scotland II is the least ridiculous part of the whole thing. Frakes does the best he can with the script, but it's just so stupid. I think it would have worked slightly better if the dead grandma rising up was cut, and, honestly, the whole thing about him being tied to the magic candle makes me groan. Just have him as the energy creature who found, way back when, that he could feed off the women in Bev's family. Turn it into romance that becomes obsession that turns again when she realizes that what he wants her for is sustenance, no matter how much he might have "loved all of them." I know that's sort of what they were already trying, but the whole Young Adult Gothic Novel approach just adds layers of stupid. It's a childish presentation. Yes, but imagine the ramifications it had on Trek, in it's universe, I mean. Wasn't this the first time a human terraformed colony was SHOWN in the whole franchise? Prior to this episode we have only mentions, we knew that terraforming projects were going on in the Federation, but this episode is the first time we actually see a "live", terraformed planet, right? Why the writers choose Scotland for it? If Trek is about diversity, why not show a fiction, an alternate multiracial, multiexperienced community, instead of a white, bucolic fantasy?... Also, what does this "finished" product implies? That planets are now a ready-made tokens? I thought that was another franchise, Magrathea. Is there a market for them? How is decided when a "thematic" planet will be created?
There are many things that are wrong with this episode, but I think the main issue that makes this episode one of the weakest ever on Trek, is that they choose to give us such a trite, cliché-filled, bland idea of Scotland. Voyager's "Fair Haven" is way better and sharper, at least Paris knew it was his fantasy. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 12, 2023 4:47:59 GMT
Honestly, given the level of tech they have, terraforming the place to be Scotland II is the least ridiculous part of the whole thing. Frakes does the best he can with the script, but it's just so stupid. I think it would have worked slightly better if the dead grandma rising up was cut, and, honestly, the whole thing about him being tied to the magic candle makes me groan. Just have him as the energy creature who found, way back when, that he could feed off the women in Bev's family. Turn it into romance that becomes obsession that turns again when she realizes that what he wants her for is sustenance, no matter how much he might have "loved all of them." I know that's sort of what they were already trying, but the whole Young Adult Gothic Novel approach just adds layers of stupid. It's a childish presentation. Yes, but imagine the ramifications it had on Trek, in it's universe, I mean. Wasn't this the first time a human terraformed colony was SHOWN in the whole franchise? Prior to this episode we have only mentions, we knew that terraforming projects were going on in the Federation, but this episode is the first time we actually see a "live", terraformed planet, right? Why the writers choose Scotland for it? If Trek is about diversity, why not show a fiction, an alternate multiracial, multiexperienced community, instead of a white, bucolic fantasy?... Also, what does this "finished" product implies? That planets are now a ready-made tokens? I thought that was another franchise, Magrathea. Is there a market for them? How is decided when a "thematic" planet will be created?
There are many things that are wrong with this episode, but I think the main issue that makes this episode one of the weakest ever on Trek, is that they choose to give us such a trite, cliché-filled, bland idea of Scotland. Voyager's "Fair Haven" is way better and sharper, at least Paris knew it was his fantasy. Why not though? Scotland is lovely. What I find most offensive about the world is that what you see of it is a soundstage, and a cheap rendition at that. As I recall, it doesn't even get a matte painting. I agree that they should have, at least in a matte pan, showed the 'out there' possibilities, like waterfalls miles high or something, but I don't object to Scotland being a template in and of itself. I imagine that there are enough people in the galaxy that there would be colonists for almost any planetary architecture. Vulcan. Andor. The Firefalls on Romulus. And Scotland. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 13, 2023 21:47:02 GMT
In anticipation of (or "in fear of") "Picard" new season debut, I rewatched "Sub Rosa". After all these years and rewatches it still remains a stinker. The whole idea of whole planet terraformed to resemble classic Scotland is just so ridiculous. The episode is an absurdity, something living between a gothic farce and a teenager erotic fantasy. I'll say this, Frakes direction is apt, there is a flow to it, a narration that makes the plot shortcomings somehow bearable. Don't Forget the Irish Colony in "Up The Long Ladder" (TNG)  |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 14, 2023 13:46:31 GMT
Last ST I watched: Does binging "The Orville" count? |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 14, 2023 15:23:15 GMT
Last ST I watched: Does binging "The Orville" count? I say it does. I LOVE THAT SHOW. In ways I think it feels more like Star Trek than Star Trek, especially in season 3. I hope to goodness they release season 3 on DVD. I really do not want to keep holding onto HULU if they are not going to do anymore episodes. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 14, 2023 19:08:41 GMT
Last ST I watched: Does binging "The Orville" count? I think it does, too. It's a slightly more distant alternate universe, is all. S3 was pretty fantastic. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 14, 2023 22:07:02 GMT
Last ST I watched: Does binging "The Orville" count? I think it does, too. It's a slightly more distant alternate universe, is all. S3 was pretty fantastic. It was. I only wish it had started there. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 15, 2023 0:16:13 GMT
Last ST I watched: Does binging "The Orville" count? It definitely count!I just happen to be watching the series 3rd season right now! I couldn't find the time when it aired. Am on the 2 ep and is pretty good and no doubts an homage to Trek, specially TNG. There is no way around it. Isaac=Data, Mercer is a sort of composite between Kirk and Picard, Bortus=Worf, Grayson another mashed-up of Riker with Troy, and so on... I am really liking it. Is not an exact copy, but more like through an oblique prism. And the music is very evocative. I think they are overdoing the romantic aspect on the first episodes, those long shots of the ship coasting out of the station ports, and other similar shots design to show HOW MUCH in love they are with the space adventure premise, the beauty of it all, I don't know, too sweet for me. Fantastic show! |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 15, 2023 0:52:39 GMT
Last ST I watched: Does binging "The Orville" count? It definitely count!I just happen to be watching the series 3rd season right now! I couldn't find the time when it aired. Am on the 2 ep and is pretty good and no doubts an homage to Trek, specially TNG. There is no way around it. Isaac=Data, Mercer is a sort of composite between Kirk and Picard, Bortus=Worf, Grayson another mashed-up of Riker with Troy, and so on... I am really liking it. Is not an exact copy, but more like through an oblique prism. And the music is very evocative. I think they are overdoing the romantic aspect on the first episodes, those long shots of the ship coasting out of the station ports, and other similar shots design to show HOW MUCH in love they are with the space adventure premise, the beauty of it all, I don't know, too sweet for me. Fantastic show! It's so easy to binge, too; it's downright relaxing (in a good way). |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 15, 2023 0:53:26 GMT
Last ST I watched: Does binging "The Orville" count? I think it does, too. It's a slightly more distant alternate universe, is all. S3 was pretty fantastic. I'm still holding out hope for a season 4... someday? Maybe? |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 15, 2023 0:54:54 GMT
I think it does, too. It's a slightly more distant alternate universe, is all. S3 was pretty fantastic. It was. I only wish it had started there. There were a few episodes in the first year that still clung to the "Let's-make-this-funny-somehow" mandate, but that cooled off quickly once the show found its voice. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 15, 2023 19:45:20 GMT
Yeah, early S1, in its attempts to fuse a fratboy gag sensibility with TNG principles bellyflops pretty badly. But as soon as they stop with the forced humor and just tell stories where the humour arises organically, it all works. S2 and S3 are mostly really entertaining. Sure, there's still the odd misstep, but that's true through all eras of actual Trek too.
@sehlatvie Might yet happen. MacFarlane clearly loves the show and I reckon if there's a way to resurrect it, he will.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 16, 2023 4:39:46 GMT
Yeah, early S1, in its attempts to fuse a fratboy gag sensibility with TNG principles bellyflops pretty badly. But as soon as they stop with the forced humor and just tell stories where the humour arises organically, it all works. S2 and S3 are mostly really entertaining. Sure, there's still the odd misstep, but that's true through all eras of actual Trek too. @sehlatvie Might yet happen. MacFarlane clearly loves the show and I reckon if there's a way to resurrect it, he will. It's great comfort-food TV. I also like that we can have a modern Star Trek-style series with adequate light for a change (speaking to Sherlock's point).  |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 17, 2023 13:42:45 GMT
Saw PIC S3.1: "The Next Generation"; it's entertaining, yes, but pretty much every single element of the episode is borrowed directly from the Star Trek movies.
At times, it felt more like a drinking game than an episode, but at least it's nowhere near the incoherent pile of pudding that was season 2.
... yet.
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 17, 2023 18:01:08 GMT
Saw PIC S3.1: "The Next Generation"; it's entertaining, yes, but pretty much every single element of the episode is borrowed directly from the Star Trek movies. At times, it felt more like a drinking game than an episode, but at least it's nowhere near the incoherent pile of pudding that was season 2.... yet. Hahahahaha I kept my comments about that to the main thread on that ep, but yeah. I mean, here's an easy one to start: even the "In the 25th century..." title card. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 17, 2023 18:23:15 GMT
Saw PIC S3.1: "The Next Generation"; it's entertaining, yes, but pretty much every single element of the episode is borrowed directly from the Star Trek movies. At times, it felt more like a drinking game than an episode, but at least it's nowhere near the incoherent pile of pudding that was season 2.... yet. Hahahahaha I kept my comments about that tot he main thread on that ep, but yeah. I mean, here's an easy one to start: even the "In the 25th century..." title card. is it time for Picard to meet 'Buck Rogers in The 25th Century' Last night I watched 'The Return of the Archons' (TOS) |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 17, 2023 19:18:23 GMT
"Archons" is a trippy episode and one of those I didn't adore as much as a kid, but appreciated a lot as I got older.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 18, 2023 1:06:39 GMT
"Archons" is a trippy episode and one of those I didn't adore as much as a kid, but appreciated a lot as I got older. ^ This. It has a freaky vibe to it; like one of those devil-cult movies of the 1970s. It's not surprising that the director, Boris Sagal (father of Futurama's Katey Sagal) also directed the equally funky-bizarre "The Omega Man"; another interesting entry in Charlton Heston's dystopia canon. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 18, 2023 1:07:47 GMT
Hahahahaha I kept my comments about that tot he main thread on that ep, but yeah. I mean, here's an easy one to start: even the "In the 25th century..." title card. is it time for Picard to meet 'Buck Rogers in The 25th Century' Okay, I want Dr. Soong to be revealed as Twiki's creator. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Apr 7, 2023 1:52:14 GMT
I just rewatched "The Measure of a Man". What a remarkable hour of television. After all these years is still brought a couple of tears to my eyes. "That act injured you and saved me. I will not forget it." -Data. Wow!... The whole series of "Picard" can't touch that episode with a 10 foot pole.
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Post by RobinBland on Apr 7, 2023 12:21:24 GMT
I just rewatched "The Measure of a Man". What a remarkable hour of television. After all these years is still brought a couple of tears to my eyes. "That act injured you and saved me. I will not forget it." -Data. Wow!... The whole series of "Picard" can't touch that episode with a 10 foot pole. You’ve made me want to go and rewatch it now. It’s just in a different league, a different world to current ST: Picard in terms of writing. Did you watch the extended cut (I think it’s one of the S2 blu-rays)? Or just the regular version? IIRC, the extended cut doesn’t add that much… just a few longer scenes here and there. I had the pleasure of meeting with writer Melinda Snodgrass a few years ago and talking with her for a few minutes about this episode. What a wonderful lady. I said she had an innate sense of fairness that shone through in that script, and she said she’d been inspired by the original Star Trek, but by so many other things besides. Her legal training was certainly a huge factor. I recall her saying something about how the fight for fairness and equality is never-ending. She was so right. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 7, 2023 13:19:33 GMT
I just rewatched "The Measure of a Man". What a remarkable hour of television. After all these years is still brought a couple of tears to my eyes. "That act injured you and saved me. I will not forget it." -Data. Wow!... The whole series of "Picard" can't touch that episode with a 10 foot pole. You’ve made me want to go and rewatch it now. It’s just in a different league, a different world to current ST: Picard in terms of writing. Did you watch the extended cut (I think it’s one of the S2 blu-rays)? Or just the regular version? IIRC, the extended cut doesn’t add that much… just a few longer scenes here and there. I had the pleasure of meeting with writer Melinda Snodgrass a few years ago and talking with her for a few minutes about this episode. What a wonderful lady. I said she had an innate sense of fairness that shone through in that script, and she said she’d been inspired by the original Star Trek, but by so many other things besides. Her legal training was certainly a huge factor. I recall her saying something about how the fight for fairness and equality is never-ending. She was so right. "Measure of a Man" is one of my favorite TNGs, and one of the few that I've watched so often that I've nearly memorized (my brain might've cured the common cold by now, if it weren't so full of pop-culture junk and TV ad jingles...). It's as much a Picard story as it is a Data story. |
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I am so sorry...
Jul 14, 2024 1:18:27 GMT