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Post by Garak Nephew on May 5, 2023 1:57:44 GMT
"Picard" is broken. We should not stop making that clear. Here is a meticulous demolition of the whole Jean-Luc/Beverly/Jack monstrosity. Many of the arguments we have discussed in this forum, but this author goes to very eloquent extent to dragged this portion of the story up to make it sound pretty much anti-Trek. The comments are great also, Trek author Christopher Bennett is very active on them. As is often the case, TOR keep putting out the good critical stuff.
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Post by MrPicard on May 5, 2023 10:15:49 GMT
"Picard" is broken. We should not stop making that clear. Here is a meticulous demolition of the whole Jean-Luc/Beverly/Jack monstrosity. Many of the arguments we have discussed in this forum, but this author goes to very eloquent extent to dragged this portion of the story up to make it sound pretty much anti-Trek. The comments are great also, Trek author Christopher Bennett is very active on them. As is often the case, TOR keep putting out the good critical stuff.
Ngl, I'm kinda flattered that a Trek novel author makes the exact same points in the comments as I as a (former) JLP-focused fan fic writer would make as to why the whole Jack Crusher storyline makes no sense whatsoever for Jean-Luc as a character.
I also find myself in agreement with the actual article, PIC's third season assassinates Crusher as a character in so many ways... and it seems even the Picard/Crusher shippers are not pleased. You know something's wrong when even the shippers you tried to cater to are complaining about your show. It's almost comically fascinating how the show managed to anger the two major JLP pairing shippers with its 2nd and 3rd season respectively by absolutely butchering things or not going into things or leaving plot hole galore behind or by plainly ignoring what had been established before.
This is why I always say that showrunners should not try to do shipper stuff. It never ends well. Leave the shipper stuff to us fic writers - we know how to do it.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 5, 2023 14:56:57 GMT
"Picard" is broken. We should not stop making that clear. Here is a meticulous demolition of the whole Jean-Luc/Beverly/Jack monstrosity. Many of the arguments we have discussed in this forum, but this author goes to very eloquent extent to dragged this portion of the story up to make it sound pretty much anti-Trek. The comments are great also, Trek author Christopher Bennett is very active on them. As is often the case, TOR keep putting out the good critical stuff.
Ngl, I'm kinda flattered that a Trek novel author makes the exact same points in the comments as I as a (former) JLP-focused fan fic writer would make as to why the whole Jack Crusher storyline makes no sense whatsoever for Jean-Luc as a character. I also find myself in agreement with the actual article, PIC's third season assassinates Crusher as a character in so many ways... and it seems even the Picard/Crusher shippers are not pleased. You know something's wrong when even the shippers you tried to cater to are complaining about your show. It's almost comically fascinating how the show managed to anger the two major JLP pairing shippers with its 2nd and 3rd season respectively by absolutely butchering things or not going into things or leaving plot hole galore behind or by plainly ignoring what had been established before.
This is why I always say that showrunners should not try to do shipper stuff. It never ends well. Leave the shipper stuff to us fic writers - we know how to do it.
There's just almost nothing of redeeming value in Crusher now that---what respect I had for her was ruined. Earlier in the season Picard was correct in his flashback to the cadets hounding him at dinner. "Starfleet gave me the only family I needed." That's...right. I find that to be mostly in character. They COULD have kept that. Picard could have found other words to convince Jack, but the words that do it are, apparently, "Never mind this other family I built over that decades that are risking their lives and careers for me, and that I literally wouldn't have this chance to save you without, what I've really been missing all this time is a SON." Also, too, the fact that if I were Bev, I'd be hurt since everything she gave up to have him and the life they had together apparently holds ZERO sway for the kid. And it all just wipes seasons 1 and 2 off the map. What was the point of any of it?
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Post by scenario on May 5, 2023 16:32:53 GMT
Assassinating Crushers character was totally unnecessary. ST is a science fiction show. Find a SF solution.
Crusher and Picard have their night of passion. The Borg kidnap her and create and implant Jack. Then put a tiny memory suppressor in Crushers brain. She can think about Picard all she wants but Picard's Jacks dad gives her a blinding headache and she forgets. Fast forward, Picard rescues Crusher in a brand new ship with state of the art medical equipment. They find and remove suppressor. Plot continues from there.
It seems like they wanted a certain plot but preferred to assassinate the character over a sf work around. Was it lazy writing or maliciousness?
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Post by nombrecomun on May 5, 2023 16:56:06 GMT
Assassinating Crushers character was totally unnecessary. ST is a science fiction show. Find a SF solution. Crusher and Picard have their night of passion. The Borg kidnap her and create and implant Jack. Then put a tiny memory suppressor in Crushers brain. She can think about Picard all she wants but Picard's Jacks dad gives her a blinding headache and she forgets. Fast forward, Picard rescues Crusher in a brand new ship with state of the art medical equipment. They find and remove suppressor. Plot continues from there. It seems like they wanted a certain plot but preferred to assassinate the character over a sf work around. Was it lazy writing or maliciousness? Very good point. My answer is that Star Trek is not about scifi anymore but now belongs in the soap opera/faux drama category. At least that's the attempt. Discovery is also proof of that. What you suggest would have been perfect. Of course we have to wonder why the Borg would bother with doing all of that to begin with. Daimon Bok on the other hand.....that would fit perfectly. But no. I think TPTB and some parts of fandom(?) wanted to see the melodramatic contrived confrontation between Picard and Crusher.
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Post by scenario on May 5, 2023 17:24:14 GMT
Assassinating Crushers character was totally unnecessary. ST is a science fiction show. Find a SF solution. Crusher and Picard have their night of passion. The Borg kidnap her and create and implant Jack. Then put a tiny memory suppressor in Crushers brain. She can think about Picard all she wants but Picard's Jacks dad gives her a blinding headache and she forgets. Fast forward, Picard rescues Crusher in a brand new ship with state of the art medical equipment. They find and remove suppressor. Plot continues from there. It seems like they wanted a certain plot but preferred to assassinate the character over a sf work around. Was it lazy writing or maliciousness? Very good point. My answer is that Star Trek is not about scifi anymore but now belongs in the soap opera/faux drama category. At least that's the attempt. Discovery is also proof of that. What you suggest would have been perfect. Of course we have to wonder why the Borg would bother with doing all of that to begin with. Daimon Bok on the other hand.....that would fit perfectly. But no. I think TPTB and some parts of fandom(?) wanted to see the melodramatic contrived confrontation between Picard and Crusher. Forced drama vs drama that comes naturally. In my scenario Beverly feels guilty about not telling Picard. Picard consoles her. They have scenes together. Picard still treats Jack as his son. Beverly is now a sympathetic character. As it was Beverly comes across as a sociopath and nobody called her out on it. Same thing with Riker. Say he lost his son then completely change his character. No real work done. Sloppy. I like soap opera drama. I hate forced drama. I hate the writers deciding they want a certain scene but not putting in the work. Its just sloppy.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 5, 2023 18:16:42 GMT
Very good point. My answer is that Star Trek is not about scifi anymore but now belongs in the soap opera/faux drama category. At least that's the attempt. Discovery is also proof of that. What you suggest would have been perfect. Of course we have to wonder why the Borg would bother with doing all of that to begin with. Daimon Bok on the other hand.....that would fit perfectly. But no. I think TPTB and some parts of fandom(?) wanted to see the melodramatic contrived confrontation between Picard and Crusher. Forced drama vs drama that comes naturally. In my scenario Beverly feels guilty about not telling Picard. Picard consoles her. They have scenes together. Picard still treats Jack as his son. Beverly is now a sympathetic character. As it was Beverly comes across as a sociopath and nobody called her out on it. Same thing with Riker. Say he lost his son then completely change his character. No real work done. Sloppy. I like soap opera drama. I hate forced drama. I hate the writers deciding they want a certain scene but not putting in the work. Its just sloppy. Picard consoles her. Yes. But that's a season-long arc. Picard as a real human being would be angry at her for a good while. So would Riker and the rest of them. 30 years of what I thought was friendship because you're paranoid? And a real human being would even grudgingly admit, "I was wrong. I was wrong to keep him from you his entire life. Hell, now you're the only one who can save him.
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Post by scenario on May 5, 2023 19:48:34 GMT
Forced drama vs drama that comes naturally. In my scenario Beverly feels guilty about not telling Picard. Picard consoles her. They have scenes together. Picard still treats Jack as his son. Beverly is now a sympathetic character. As it was Beverly comes across as a sociopath and nobody called her out on it. Same thing with Riker. Say he lost his son then completely change his character. No real work done. Sloppy. I like soap opera drama. I hate forced drama. I hate the writers deciding they want a certain scene but not putting in the work. Its just sloppy. Picard consoles her. Yes. But that's a season-long arc. Picard as a real human being would be angry at her for a good while. So would Riker and the rest of them. 30 years of what I thought was friendship because you're paranoid? And a real human being would even grudgingly admit, "I was wrong. I was wrong to keep him from you his entire life. Hell, now you're the only one who can save him. As the story was shown it should have resulted in a serious rift between Picard and Crusher. It didn't have to be that way. As written she had a choice and decided to be hurtful.
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Post by MrPicard on May 6, 2023 11:41:27 GMT
I know it was Sir Patrick's idea to make Crusher the mother of Jean-Luc's son but that doesn't mean it was a GOOD idea. (Spoiler: It was one of the worst ideas ever. And I'd be happy to tell him that. I don't care. lol)
They should have used Vash. Vash would be the type of person who would not tell Jean-Luc that she's pregnant and she would totally have vanished without a trace after a(nother) night of passion. She would also be the type of person who not feel any remorse whatsoever about not telling him that he has a kid. And she wouldn't even need any weird "you're always in danger" reasons for not telling him. She'd simply not tell him because that's what Vash does. She comes and goes as she pleases and I doubt she'd want for him to interfere with raising the child anyway because let's face it, they don't fit together at all. This would have neatly tied things up, too. Crusher could still have had some kind of story arc (maybe actually finally one where she gets to be something other than a mother) and all would have been well.
They should have gone down a more sci-fi and less soap opera road if Crusher HAD to be the mother. The way they did it completely assassinated Crusher as a character and makes her come across as a gaslighting supervillain. If I were a Crusher fan I would be OUTRAGED by the way they treated my favorite character. I mean I've always loathed her, it's no secret, but when even *I* say she didn't deserve this kind of character assassination, it really must be bad. I mean I could see her grudgingly telling Jean-Luc that she's pregnant and then shutting him off. THAT I could see her doing, from what she did on TNG. But to not tell him AND to ghost EVERYONE ELSE from the TNG crew along the way? What the HELL?
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 6, 2023 19:12:58 GMT
I know it was Sir Patrick's idea to make Crusher the mother of Jean-Luc's son but that doesn't mean it was a GOOD idea. (Spoiler: It was one of the worst ideas ever. And I'd be happy to tell him that. I don't care. lol) They should have used Vash. Vash would be the type of person who would not tell Jean-Luc that she's pregnant and she would totally have vanished without a trace after a(nother) night of passion. She would also be the type of person who not feel any remorse whatsoever about not telling him that he has a kid. And she wouldn't even need any weird "you're always in danger" reasons for not telling him. She'd simply not tell him because that's what Vash does. She comes and goes as she pleases and I doubt she'd want for him to interfere with raising the child anyway because let's face it, they don't fit together at all. This would have neatly tied things up, too. Crusher could still have had some kind of story arc (maybe actually finally one where she gets to be something other than a mother) and all would have been well. They should have gone down a more sci-fi and less soap opera road if Crusher HAD to be the mother. The way they did it completely assassinated Crusher as a character and makes her come across as a gaslighting supervillain. If I were a Crusher fan I would be OUTRAGED by the way they treated my favorite character. I mean I've always loathed her, it's no secret, but when even *I* say she didn't deserve this kind of character assassination, it really must be bad. I mean I could see her grudgingly telling Jean-Luc that she's pregnant and then shutting him off. THAT I could see her doing, from what she did on TNG. But to not tell him AND to ghost EVERYONE ELSE from the TNG crew along the way? What the HELL? Vash absolutely fits: P: How dare you have a child, our child, and not say a word...not a single word to me in decades. V: I didn't think you'd care. P: Excuse me? V: C'mon Jean-Luc. We'd meet now and again and have a good time. You'd be aghast and all (imitates him) "How can you? You're incorrigible." about my next...quest, and I admit that I sort of liked seeing that look on your face, but then we'd part company until next time. V: So it's not like we have this deep, love for the ages thing going on. Did you forget Q had to send us to Sherwood Forest for mutual beheadings before you'd even ADMIT THAT YOU CARED ANYTHING ABOUT ME AT ALL. There was your crew, your ship, Starfleet, and that's it. There was room for him in what I'm sure you'd call my rogue's life where there was no room for either of us in yours. V: If he was going to have a father, he had to be present and all right with the life we led. You never were. You'd expect me to change and I'm not doing that, and, even if you found a way to be comfortable with being constantly aghast at my behavior I'd always be left thinking that you gave up what you really wanted to do, so you could tend to your obligation. So I made the choice to keep him and keep him in my life and not your obligation. Maybe it wasn't the best choice, but it's the one I made. P: For both of us, without consulting me. Vash, what you said was true. A lot of it was at least closer to the truth than I would have wanted to admit back when we were closer. It took me a long time, and more effort than it should have, but I opened up. I learned to show more of myself to my crew, my family. I came to admit that roads not taken left their mark. I deserved to know. I deserved to make that choice. V: And what? If you can be a father, great? Then, if you can't, what? If you need an omnipotent being threatening to murder him or the universe before you admit that he's worth fighting for, what good would you be as a father, Jean-Luc? That was the choice I was left with, so I made the best one for him. V: You know, if you'd 'grown' so much as a person that there was room for me, and I still mattered, why didn't you come looking for me?" P: ... V: Uh-huh. That, or something like it fits. It acknowledges what we know about both characters, and doesn't trash either of them. They're both arguably guilty of poor, but understandable choices. But they just shredded Crusher because too many people in that writer's room believed that the two of them had some deep, grand relationship, so she has to be the mom. That's what fans wanna see.
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Post by MrPicard on May 8, 2023 9:22:01 GMT
I know it was Sir Patrick's idea to make Crusher the mother of Jean-Luc's son but that doesn't mean it was a GOOD idea. (Spoiler: It was one of the worst ideas ever. And I'd be happy to tell him that. I don't care. lol) They should have used Vash. Vash would be the type of person who would not tell Jean-Luc that she's pregnant and she would totally have vanished without a trace after a(nother) night of passion. She would also be the type of person who not feel any remorse whatsoever about not telling him that he has a kid. And she wouldn't even need any weird "you're always in danger" reasons for not telling him. She'd simply not tell him because that's what Vash does. She comes and goes as she pleases and I doubt she'd want for him to interfere with raising the child anyway because let's face it, they don't fit together at all. This would have neatly tied things up, too. Crusher could still have had some kind of story arc (maybe actually finally one where she gets to be something other than a mother) and all would have been well. They should have gone down a more sci-fi and less soap opera road if Crusher HAD to be the mother. The way they did it completely assassinated Crusher as a character and makes her come across as a gaslighting supervillain. If I were a Crusher fan I would be OUTRAGED by the way they treated my favorite character. I mean I've always loathed her, it's no secret, but when even *I* say she didn't deserve this kind of character assassination, it really must be bad. I mean I could see her grudgingly telling Jean-Luc that she's pregnant and then shutting him off. THAT I could see her doing, from what she did on TNG. But to not tell him AND to ghost EVERYONE ELSE from the TNG crew along the way? What the HELL? Vash absolutely fits: P: How dare you have a child, our child, and not say a word...not a single word to me in decades. V: I didn't think you'd care. P: Excuse me? V: C'mon Jean-Luc. We'd meet now and again and have a good time. You'd be aghast and all (imitates him) "How can you? You're incorrigible." about my next...quest, and I admit that I sort of liked seeing that look on your face, but then we'd part company until next time. V: So it's not like we have this deep, love for the ages thing going on. Did you forget Q had to send us to Sherwood Forest for mutual beheadings before you'd even ADMIT THAT YOU CARED ANYTHING ABOUT ME AT ALL. There was your crew, your ship, Starfleet, and that's it. There was room for him in what I'm sure you'd call my rogue's life where there was no room for either of us in yours. V: If he was going to have a father, he had to be present and all right with the life we led. You never were. You'd expect me to change and I'm not doing that, and, even if you found a way to be comfortable with being constantly aghast at my behavior I'd always be left thinking that you gave up what you really wanted to do, so you could tend to your obligation. So I made the choice to keep him and keep him in my life and not your obligation. Maybe it wasn't the best choice, but it's the one I made. P: For both of us, without consulting me. Vash, what you said was true. A lot of it was at least closer to the truth than I would have wanted to admit back when we were closer. It took me a long time, and more effort than it should have, but I opened up. I learned to show more of myself to my crew, my family. I came to admit that roads not taken left their mark. I deserved to know. I deserved to make that choice. V: And what? If you can be a father, great? Then, if you can't, what? If you need an omnipotent being threatening to murder him or the universe before you admit that he's worth fighting for, what good would you be as a father, Jean-Luc? That was the choice I was left with, so I made the best one for him. V: You know, if you'd 'grown' so much as a person that there was room for me, and I still mattered, why didn't you come looking for me?" P: ... V: Uh-huh. That, or something like it fits. It acknowledges what we know about both characters, and doesn't trash either of them. They're both arguably guilty of poor, but understandable choices. But they just shredded Crusher because too many people in that writer's room believed that the two of them had some deep, grand relationship, so she has to be the mom. That's what fans wanna see. I kinda find it amusing that how it was done was exactly NOT the way the fans wanted for it to be. LOL. I mean even the shippers are angry at them. I sure would be, too - I'm complaining about P/Q on a high level; at least I got a hug and an almost-kiss and a loving and tender moment AND now also the totally not surprising revelation that Q isn't dead after all and can visit Jean-Luc again anytime.
The P/C shippers got a massively toxic relationship that was attempted five (!!!) times, her being character-assassinated by having her ghosting and gaslighting the hell out of him, a kid they had together but never raised together, and then they didn't even touch throughout the entire third season AND then the ending is left entirely up in the air - are they friends who are co-parenting or are they into their toxic relationship for the sixth time? What about Laris? We just don't know. Interpret it as you wish. Whatever. Seriously? That's the best they could do? If I were a P/C shipper, I'd be throwing things.
I guess in a way they DID it right - it's exactly the train wreck of a relationship that it was always destined to be. Picard/Crusher would never have worked out, and now we know exactly why. Not that we needed the entire demonstration, of course. Like I said, they should have used Vash as the mother. Would at least have made a BIT more sense.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 8, 2023 14:30:52 GMT
Vash absolutely fits: P: How dare you have a child, our child, and not say a word...not a single word to me in decades. V: I didn't think you'd care. P: Excuse me? V: C'mon Jean-Luc. We'd meet now and again and have a good time. You'd be aghast and all (imitates him) "How can you? You're incorrigible." about my next...quest, and I admit that I sort of liked seeing that look on your face, but then we'd part company until next time. V: So it's not like we have this deep, love for the ages thing going on. Did you forget Q had to send us to Sherwood Forest for mutual beheadings before you'd even ADMIT THAT YOU CARED ANYTHING ABOUT ME AT ALL. There was your crew, your ship, Starfleet, and that's it. There was room for him in what I'm sure you'd call my rogue's life where there was no room for either of us in yours. V: If he was going to have a father, he had to be present and all right with the life we led. You never were. You'd expect me to change and I'm not doing that, and, even if you found a way to be comfortable with being constantly aghast at my behavior I'd always be left thinking that you gave up what you really wanted to do, so you could tend to your obligation. So I made the choice to keep him and keep him in my life and not your obligation. Maybe it wasn't the best choice, but it's the one I made. P: For both of us, without consulting me. Vash, what you said was true. A lot of it was at least closer to the truth than I would have wanted to admit back when we were closer. It took me a long time, and more effort than it should have, but I opened up. I learned to show more of myself to my crew, my family. I came to admit that roads not taken left their mark. I deserved to know. I deserved to make that choice. V: And what? If you can be a father, great? Then, if you can't, what? If you need an omnipotent being threatening to murder him or the universe before you admit that he's worth fighting for, what good would you be as a father, Jean-Luc? That was the choice I was left with, so I made the best one for him. V: You know, if you'd 'grown' so much as a person that there was room for me, and I still mattered, why didn't you come looking for me?" P: ... V: Uh-huh. That, or something like it fits. It acknowledges what we know about both characters, and doesn't trash either of them. They're both arguably guilty of poor, but understandable choices. But they just shredded Crusher because too many people in that writer's room believed that the two of them had some deep, grand relationship, so she has to be the mom. That's what fans wanna see. I kinda find it amusing that how it was done was exactly NOT the way the fans wanted for it to be. LOL. I mean even the shippers are angry at them. I sure would be, too - I'm complaining about P/Q on a high level; at least I got a hug and an almost-kiss and a loving and tender moment AND now also the totally not surprising revelation that Q isn't dead after all and can visit Jean-Luc again anytime.
The P/C shippers got a massively toxic relationship that was attempted five (!!!) times, her being character-assassinated by having her ghosting and gaslighting the hell out of him, a kid they had together but never raised together, and then they didn't even touch throughout the entire third season AND then the ending is left entirely up in the air - are they friends who are co-parenting or are they into their toxic relationship for the sixth time? What about Laris? We just don't know. Interpret it as you wish. Whatever. Seriously? That's the best they could do? If I were a P/C shipper, I'd be throwing things.
I guess in a way they DID it right - it's exactly the train wreck of a relationship that it was always destined to be. Picard/Crusher would never have worked out, and now we know exactly why. Not that we needed the entire demonstration, of course. Like I said, they should have used Vash as the mother. Would at least have made a BIT more sense.
Honestly, I never saw it to begin with. Picard always seemed like, "Yeah, she's attractive in a way, but, eh." There was never this sense that he was drawn to her and trying to not be because of Jack, or Wes, or serving together and all the mess any of those factors would create. And she was always, "Come here, go away" enough to keep her cover my ass insurance premiums paid so she was good for the next time she decided to do something shady. So, for me, it ended in mostly the same place that it always existed.
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Post by nombrecomun on May 8, 2023 16:44:17 GMT
I'm sure I'm very disconnected from Trek fandom overall but this idea that there are storyline 'shippers' is new to me. The idea of a subset of Trekdom that are "Picard-Crusher romantic relationship" wishers or "Q-Picard romantic relationship" hopefuls is bizarre to me.
Maybe it is there in great numbers which would help explain why this franchise and overall storytelling is quite fragmented nowadays. These type of fans seem to be looking for that one scene that validates their feelings/opinions without necessarily caring about the whole.
I tend to think the only reason this specific storyline is getting any air is because of how terribly that Picard-Crusher dynamic was handled in this season.
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Post by scenario on May 8, 2023 19:09:59 GMT
I'm sure I'm very disconnected from Trek fandom overall but this idea that there are storyline 'shippers' is new to me. The idea of a subset of Trekdom that are "Picard-Crusher romantic relationship" wishers or "Q-Picard romantic relationship" hopefuls is bizarre to me. Maybe it is there in great numbers which would help explain why this franchise and overall storytelling is quite fragmented nowadays. These type of fans seem to be looking for that one scene that validates their feelings/opinions without necessarily caring about the whole. I tend to think the only reason this specific storyline is getting any air is because of how terribly that Picard-Crusher dynamic was handled in this season. Back when ST fandom got its start they met at conventions or through magazines. Now fans with specific interests can meet on the web making it easier to have smaller groups within the larger fandom.
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Post by MrPicard on May 9, 2023 5:33:47 GMT
I'm sure I'm very disconnected from Trek fandom overall but this idea that there are storyline 'shippers' is new to me. The idea of a subset of Trekdom that are "Picard-Crusher romantic relationship" wishers or "Q-Picard romantic relationship" hopefuls is bizarre to me. Maybe it is there in great numbers which would help explain why this franchise and overall storytelling is quite fragmented nowadays. These type of fans seem to be looking for that one scene that validates their feelings/opinions without necessarily caring about the whole. I tend to think the only reason this specific storyline is getting any air is because of how terribly that Picard-Crusher dynamic was handled in this season. Shippers exist in every fandom. They are usually wonderful and imaginative people (some take it too far and become obnoxious tho, yes). Frankly, I prefer hanging out with shippers over those who only look at what's on screen and will rant for hours about what is canon and what is not canon. As for Star Trek, shipping has existed ever since Kirk and Spock looked at each other for the first time. The Kirk/Spock fandom literally invented the term "slash". So, it's not something modern. It has always existed. And Trek's showrunners have always been aware of it, too. And all the casts as well.
Terry Matalas interacts a lot with shippers on Twitter, he officially blessed the term "LaCrush" for the pairing of Jack and LaForge's daughter that some people immediately noticed. The level of interaction with shippers is new, but they have always been there. Which is another reason why so many are annoyed with Matalas now - he interacted with them, baited them, and then... nothing. It gives you a feeling of being used. I remember Akiva Goldsman himself liked one of my Picard/Q tweets. Ironic, given how he was the one who yelled the most about their "love" and how it was "all discussed in the writers' room" and then nothing really came of this, at least not in terms of having Q finally say "I love you". The Picard/Q section still got more than Picard/Crusher and Seven/Raffi combined tho, so I guess in hindsight things aren't as bad for us.
As for the Picard/Crusher storyline... it's literally the only song Beverly Crusher has ever sung. And it still is. She has always served mostly as the Will They Won't They counterpart of Jean-Luc Picard. The fact that even now, after so many years, they STILL couldn't come up with anything else for her character speaks volumes. They managed to make ten episodes where she serves as little more than a plot point to drive Jean-Luc's story forward, this time through the introduction of a son. Granted, the show is called PICARD, not CRUSHER, but honestly, they managed to give the other characters storylines of their own as well. And their storytelling point was so weak that they had to write out Laris in the first episode because they knew the second Laris was there as well the whole "oh my God it's Beverly oh my God they're back on screen together, oh my God the old FEEEEELS" thing they were trying to build up would crumble to dust. It would have made PERFECT sense for Jean-Luc to bring Laris along on a mission of "trust no one", what better support to have than a former Romulan Tal'Shiar agent? But nope, Laris was "politely written out", as a reviewer put it, and then not even seen again at the end because it would have messed up the "are they back together or not" thingy they so desperately wanted to create.
And yeah, other parts of the fandom would not give the Picard/Crusher storyline this much attention if the whole son nonsense hadn't been the backbone of the entire plot. A non-working backbone, that is. Even in the best reviews for the show the son thing is usually named as the weakest plot point or the one that didn't make any sense or the one that leaves people unimpressed. I have no idea why they thought this was necessary to do, because it wasn't. The info about the son leaked about two years ago, and every single reaction to it that I read was negative. People didn't want it then and they don't want it now.
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Post by nombrecomun on May 9, 2023 6:52:07 GMT
I'm sure I'm very disconnected from Trek fandom overall but this idea that there are storyline 'shippers' is new to me. The idea of a subset of Trekdom that are "Picard-Crusher romantic relationship" wishers or "Q-Picard romantic relationship" hopefuls is bizarre to me. Maybe it is there in great numbers which would help explain why this franchise and overall storytelling is quite fragmented nowadays. These type of fans seem to be looking for that one scene that validates their feelings/opinions without necessarily caring about the whole. I tend to think the only reason this specific storyline is getting any air is because of how terribly that Picard-Crusher dynamic was handled in this season.
Terry Matalas interacts a lot with shippers on Twitter, he officially blessed the term "LaCrush" for the pairing of Jack and LaForge's daughter that some people immediately noticed. The level of interaction with shippers is new, but they have always been there. Which is another reason why so many are annoyed with Matalas now - he interacted with them, baited them, and then... nothing. It gives you a feeling of being used. I remember Akiva Goldsman himself liked one of my Picard/Q tweets. Ironic, given how he was the one who yelled the most about their "love" and how it was "all discussed in the writers' room" and then nothing really came of this, at least not in terms of having Q finally say "I love you". The Picard/Q section still got more than Picard/Crusher and Seven/Raffi combined tho, so I guess in hindsight things aren't as bad for us. This is very interesting...... and it's a really bad idea because of exactly what you mention. Here's a showrunner just spitballing having an off the cuff conversation with fans talking about thoughts, ideas, whims, etc....and the fans, or specific shippers, take to it as if it's gospel. That would be the "giving them the benefit of the doubt" scenario. The dirty pool scenario is to do that on purpose to tantalize and hook in viewers. That's low. Very low. The more that I hear about this other type of social media interaction with TPTB the more I'm happy I don't bother with it at all. Here you have 'conversations' spanning maybe up to several years before you see something on screen and people have a very different expectation from what the final product ends up being. It's all speculation, which is fine when it comes from some YTuber, but the speculation is coming from the very people in charge of the shows. Awful. Awful. Awful.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on May 9, 2023 10:57:15 GMT
"Picard" is broken. We should not stop making that clear. Here is a meticulous demolition of the whole Jean-Luc/Beverly/Jack monstrosity. Many of the arguments we have discussed in this forum, but this author goes to very eloquent extent to dragged this portion of the story up to make it sound pretty much anti-Trek. The comments are great also, Trek author Christopher Bennett is very active on them. As is often the case, TOR keep putting out the good critical stuff.
Wow! Spot on. As were Christopher Bennett's comments.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on May 9, 2023 11:10:58 GMT
I'm sure I'm very disconnected from Trek fandom overall but this idea that there are storyline 'shippers' is new to me. The idea of a subset of Trekdom that are "Picard-Crusher romantic relationship" wishers or "Q-Picard romantic relationship" hopefuls is bizarre to me. Maybe it is there in great numbers which would help explain why this franchise and overall storytelling is quite fragmented nowadays. These type of fans seem to be looking for that one scene that validates their feelings/opinions without necessarily caring about the whole. I tend to think the only reason this specific storyline is getting any air is because of how terribly that Picard-Crusher dynamic was handled in this season. Shippers exist in every fandom. They are usually wonderful and imaginative people (some take it too far and become obnoxious tho, yes). Frankly, I prefer hanging out with shippers over those who only look at what's on screen and will rant for hours about what is canon and what is not canon. As for Star Trek, shipping has existed ever since Kirk and Spock looked at each other for the first time. The Kirk/Spock fandom literally invented the term "slash". So, it's not something modern. It has always existed. And Trek's showrunners have always been aware of it, too. And all the casts as well.
Terry Matalas interacts a lot with shippers on Twitter, he officially blessed the term "LaCrush" for the pairing of Jack and LaForge's daughter that some people immediately noticed. The level of interaction with shippers is new, but they have always been there. Which is another reason why so many are annoyed with Matalas now - he interacted with them, baited them, and then... nothing. It gives you a feeling of being used. I remember Akiva Goldsman himself liked one of my Picard/Q tweets. Ironic, given how he was the one who yelled the most about their "love" and how it was "all discussed in the writers' room" and then nothing really came of this, at least not in terms of having Q finally say "I love you". The Picard/Q section still got more than Picard/Crusher and Seven/Raffi combined tho, so I guess in hindsight things aren't as bad for us.
As for the Picard/Crusher storyline... it's literally the only song Beverly Crusher has ever sung. And it still is. She has always served mostly as the Will They Won't They counterpart of Jean-Luc Picard. The fact that even now, after so many years, they STILL couldn't come up with anything else for her character speaks volumes. They managed to make ten episodes where she serves as little more than a plot point to drive Jean-Luc's story forward, this time through the introduction of a son. Granted, the show is called PICARD, not CRUSHER, but honestly, they managed to give the other characters storylines of their own as well. And their storytelling point was so weak that they had to write out Laris in the first episode because they knew the second Laris was there as well the whole "oh my God it's Beverly oh my God they're back on screen together, oh my God the old FEEEEELS" thing they were trying to build up would crumble to dust. It would have made PERFECT sense for Jean-Luc to bring Laris along on a mission of "trust no one", what better support to have than a former Romulan Tal'Shiar agent? But nope, Laris was "politely written out", as a reviewer put it, and then not even seen again at the end because it would have messed up the "are they back together or not" thingy they so desperately wanted to create.
And yeah, other parts of the fandom would not give the Picard/Crusher storyline this much attention if the whole son nonsense hadn't been the backbone of the entire plot. A non-working backbone, that is. Even in the best reviews for the show the son thing is usually named as the weakest plot point or the one that didn't make any sense or the one that leaves people unimpressed. I have no idea why they thought this was necessary to do, because it wasn't. The info about the son leaked about two years ago, and every single reaction to it that I read was negative. People didn't want it then and they don't want it now.
It's interesting that even after all of Beverly's 'development' as a character this past season on PIC (arguably more than she ever got in TNG), I still dislike the character just as much as I did back then. Her decision to 'hide her son' was selfish and nonsensical. The justification for it later on--because Jean-Luc has a dangerous job which he puts first--is absolute crap, since we see her (AND her son) flying around the universe in a deathtrap of a ship smuggling medicine to failed planets--yeah, what could possibly go wrong with that, right? Not dangerous at all... She never gave him the OPTION of wanting to be a dad or not (unlike Kirk, who agreed to 'stay away'). And Laris' awkward dropping after two seasons dedicated to building her up as a character (a far more interesting character than Beverly on her best day) was another bullshit choice. For my money, PIC S3 was a largely wasted season with a big, overstuffed, sugar-coated sendoff at the very end. It gave the hardcore fans (the kind who cream themselves over shots of the Ent-D flying by the screen) exactly what they wanted, but not what they NEEDED. Big difference. Nick Meyer understood the assignment when he was given the reins of STII: TWOK and delivered a very different kind of Star Trek was almost shockingly contrasted with expectations, yet gave the franchise exactly what it needed at the time. Sadly, that once crisp and exciting innovation has now become an overused template in the ST canon for the past 40 years. Everyone has missed the point of Nick Meyer's TWOK; it wasn't to make a 'dark edgy adult Trek'; it was to be DIFFERENT. To push beyond the comfort zone. Terry Matalas doesn't seem to get this, at all. This is what happens when you have fans making the show for other fans, instead of outsiders with genuinely new and interesting directions in which to take the franchise.
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Post by Garak Nephew on May 9, 2023 13:31:49 GMT
I'm sure I'm very disconnected from Trek fandom overall but this idea that there are storyline 'shippers' is new to me. The idea of a subset of Trekdom that are "Picard-Crusher romantic relationship" wishers or "Q-Picard romantic relationship" hopefuls is bizarre to me. Maybe it is there in great numbers which would help explain why this franchise and overall storytelling is quite fragmented nowadays. These type of fans seem to be looking for that one scene that validates their feelings/opinions without necessarily caring about the whole. I tend to think the only reason this specific storyline is getting any air is because of how terribly that Picard-Crusher dynamic was handled in this season. Back when ST fandom got its start they met at conventions or through magazines. Now fans with specific interests can meet on the web making it easier to have smaller groups within the larger fandom. Good observation. I like to come out with concepts or terms (maybe something my head kept from my philosophy courses on college). Maybe we can create "micro fandoming" to designate the phenomenon of fragmentation inside any particular fictional universe once it becomes to big.
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Post by Garak Nephew on May 9, 2023 13:40:37 GMT
I kinda find it amusing that how it was done was exactly NOT the way the fans wanted for it to be. LOL. I mean even the shippers are angry at them. I sure would be, too - I'm complaining about P/Q on a high level; at least I got a hug and an almost-kiss and a loving and tender moment AND now also the totally not surprising revelation that Q isn't dead after all and can visit Jean-Luc again anytime.
The P/C shippers got a massively toxic relationship that was attempted five (!!!) times, her being character-assassinated by having her ghosting and gaslighting the hell out of him, a kid they had together but never raised together, and then they didn't even touch throughout the entire third season AND then the ending is left entirely up in the air - are they friends who are co-parenting or are they into their toxic relationship for the sixth time? What about Laris? We just don't know. Interpret it as you wish. Whatever. Seriously? That's the best they could do? If I were a P/C shipper, I'd be throwing things.
I guess in a way they DID it right - it's exactly the train wreck of a relationship that it was always destined to be. Picard/Crusher would never have worked out, and now we know exactly why. Not that we needed the entire demonstration, of course. Like I said, they should have used Vash as the mother. Would at least have made a BIT more sense.
Honestly, I never saw it to begin with. Picard always seemed like, "Yeah, she's attractive in a way, but, eh." There was never this sense that he was drawn to her and trying to not be because of Jack, or Wes, or serving together and all the mess any of those factors would create. And she was always, "Come here, go away" enough to keep her cover my ass insurance premiums paid so she was good for the next time she decided to do something shady. So, for me, it ended in mostly the same place that it always existed. I never saw it either. Plus there was never any chemistry at all!! There is more chemistry between Ro and Picard on that couple of minutes they spend plotting on the bar ("Preemptive Strike") than on the entire TNG "relationship" with Beverly. For some reason, fans wanted to see something when there was nothing so the writers caved to the pressure.
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Post by Garak Nephew on May 9, 2023 13:49:42 GMT
I'm sure I'm very disconnected from Trek fandom overall but this idea that there are storyline 'shippers' is new to me. The idea of a subset of Trekdom that are "Picard-Crusher romantic relationship" wishers or "Q-Picard romantic relationship" hopefuls is bizarre to me. Maybe it is there in great numbers which would help explain why this franchise and overall storytelling is quite fragmented nowadays. These type of fans seem to be looking for that one scene that validates their feelings/opinions without necessarily caring about the whole. I tend to think the only reason this specific storyline is getting any air is because of how terribly that Picard-Crusher dynamic was handled in this season. Shippers exist in every fandom. They are usually wonderful and imaginative people (some take it too far and become obnoxious tho, yes). Frankly, I prefer hanging out with shippers over those who only look at what's on screen and will rant for hours about what is canon and what is not canon. As for Star Trek, shipping has existed ever since Kirk and Spock looked at each other for the first time. The Kirk/Spock fandom literally invented the term "slash". So, it's not something modern. It has always existed. And Trek's showrunners have always been aware of it, too. And all the casts as well.
To be honest also, I never heard of this term before. I had to look for it online. "Shippers" I thought we were talking about some kind of love boat or something, some transportation device. Glad that this conversation have being so instructive. It seems that the idea seep into popular culture subconscious after X-files fandom became "shippers" for Mulder and Scully screen-scorching chemistry on that show. In that case, I am one of the original shippers because back in the early days of the X-files I was for their romance big time. They played a big role on my libido formation and imagination. Thank you Gillian, my kind of woman!!!
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 9, 2023 14:37:18 GMT
Honestly, I never saw it to begin with. Picard always seemed like, "Yeah, she's attractive in a way, but, eh." There was never this sense that he was drawn to her and trying to not be because of Jack, or Wes, or serving together and all the mess any of those factors would create. And she was always, "Come here, go away" enough to keep her cover my ass insurance premiums paid so she was good for the next time she decided to do something shady. So, for me, it ended in mostly the same place that it always existed. I never saw it either. Plus there was never any chemistry at all!! There is more chemistry between Ro and Picard on that couple of minutes they spend plotting on the bar ("Preemptive Strike") than on the entire TNG "relationship" with Beverly. For some reason, fans wanted to see something when there was nothing so the writers caved to the pressure. Now that you say it out loud, absolutely this. Forbes and Stewart had more chemistry and it's far less an exercise in character assassination for Ro and Picard to have some sort of tryst and then Ro hide the result. Hell, maybe Starfleet Intelligence Ro introduces the kid early on just to suss out whether or not dad's a Changeling. And she'd certainly have more valid reasons to hide the kid from Picard and everyone else than Beverly ever did.
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Post by RobinBland on May 13, 2023 23:17:44 GMT
"Picard" is broken. We should not stop making that clear. Here is a meticulous demolition of the whole Jean-Luc/Beverly/Jack monstrosity. Many of the arguments we have discussed in this forum, but this author goes to very eloquent extent to dragged this portion of the story up to make it sound pretty much anti-Trek. The comments are great also, Trek author Christopher Bennett is very active on them. As is often the case, TOR keep putting out the good critical stuff.
This is a great article. Thanks for posting, GarakNephew. It's helped me make a little sense of how I feel about S3. ... Every single comment I've read on this thread about ways S3 could've gone, are all more interesting than what ended up in the show. Every idea here is better. I think I had to put Picard out of my head for a couple of weeks. I think I had to just put it aside, and make it feel like I wasn't too bothered about this season, and that there are other things in life to be bothered about that are more deserving of my attention. But I have to acknowledge how amazingly poor I feel this piece of TV was. I can't understand how lauded by greater fandom and Trek media it is... well, damn, I'm out of step with it. It's not for me. I honestly wish I'd never watched S2 and S3 of this show. I want to wish it away from my memory. I wish I could erase it. ... It has made me feel I might be done with Star Trek, at least modern Kurtzman era Trek. Yeah, I liked S1 of SNW and Prodigy well enough, but it seems much safer to hang back and not see this stuff as it's going out, to allow the dust to settle. I'm not enjoying this anymore. Sure, I had issues with some of the Berman era Trek when it was first airing, but fundamentally, it always felt like fun. Picard feels like [Deleted]... My original aphorism there was too dark. I'll just say that this no longer feels like fun, so I'm gonna give it a rest for a while and just watch the old stuff.
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Post by Garak Nephew on May 14, 2023 0:10:53 GMT
I never saw it either. Plus there was never any chemistry at all!! There is more chemistry between Ro and Picard on that couple of minutes they spend plotting on the bar ("Preemptive Strike") than on the entire TNG "relationship" with Beverly. For some reason, fans wanted to see something when there was nothing so the writers caved to the pressure. Now that you say it out loud, absolutely this. Forbes and Stewart had more chemistry and it's far less an exercise in character assassination for Ro and Picard to have some sort of tryst and then Ro hide the result. Hell, maybe Starfleet Intelligence Ro introduces the kid early on just to suss out whether or not dad's a Changeling. And she'd certainly have more valid reasons to hide the kid from Picard and everyone else than Beverly ever did. True. My example was more aimed only at the chemistry between the actors and the characters, though. My position on Picard's fatherhood is that it is wrong in itself not if whether or not the creators missed the point by making Beverly the mother of Picard's son. Vash, Ro, Philipa, etc., are all better options as probable mothers for Picard son; but that is beside the point. Making Picard a father betrays the spirit of the character as portrayed on TNG.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 14, 2023 4:05:35 GMT
Now that you say it out loud, absolutely this. Forbes and Stewart had more chemistry and it's far less an exercise in character assassination for Ro and Picard to have some sort of tryst and then Ro hide the result. Hell, maybe Starfleet Intelligence Ro introduces the kid early on just to suss out whether or not dad's a Changeling. And she'd certainly have more valid reasons to hide the kid from Picard and everyone else than Beverly ever did. True. My example was more aimed only at the chemistry between the actors and the characters, though. My position on Picard's fatherhood is that it is wrong in itself not if whether or not the creators missed the point by making Beverly the mother of Picard's son. Vash, Ro, Philipa, etc., are all better options as probable mothers for Picard son; but that is beside the point. Making Picard a father betrays the spirit of the character as portrayed on TNG. But, as Trek author Christopher L Bennett points out in the comments, episodes like "The Inner Light" helped him realize that he's not as averse to fatherhood as he believed himself to be, and, the Nexus wouldn't have created for Picard something that he didn't want. PIC S2 retconned that.
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Post by MrPicard on May 15, 2023 9:53:23 GMT
You can write Jean-Luc Picard as a father. I've done it. It's possible. But you have to take episodes like "Inner Light" into account and not do what PIC did by literally ignoring it for three entire seasons because it wasn't convenient for the plot. And you need to know him as a character, and not just the pop culture image of him, which is all that Matalas and his cronies seem to be aware of.
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Post by RobinBland on May 15, 2023 22:38:20 GMT
I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with writing Jean-Luc as a father, late in life. There's actually quite a good bit of emotional possibility that could be mined there by the kind of writing that took Star Trek as a canvas via which to explore aspects of the human condition and do what it does best, which is take it to strange new places. However, that's the kind of approach that's looking to make good drama, something meaningful and genuinely memorable, not a nostalgic tour of the hits and the old horses. Sorry, space vessels.
My issues stem with the fact that Picard S3 did exactly the opposite and did it all really badly. It was so hackneyed, so soapy, so joylessly, clumsily obvious and gracelessly heavy-handed in its approach that by the final couple of episodes I couldn't really believe what I was watching.
Worse, that I'd paid for it, and even worse, that much of Trekmedia was hailing it as one of the best seasons of Trek ever.
There were a lot of opportunities here - and no, I don't have the energy to list 'em - but if people believe this ten-episode run is evidence of Terry Matalas as the savior of Star Trek, then I'm clearly living in the wrong universe.
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Post by Garak Nephew on May 16, 2023 3:16:01 GMT
True. My example was more aimed only at the chemistry between the actors and the characters, though. My position on Picard's fatherhood is that it is wrong in itself not if whether or not the creators missed the point by making Beverly the mother of Picard's son. Vash, Ro, Philipa, etc., are all better options as probable mothers for Picard son; but that is beside the point. Making Picard a father betrays the spirit of the character as portrayed on TNG. But, as Trek author Christopher L Bennett points out in the comments, episodes like "The Inner Light" helped him realize that he's not as averse to fatherhood as he believed himself to be, and, the Nexus wouldn't have created for Picard something that he didn't want. PIC S2 retconned that. It makes you wonder if that's one of the reason they used the ressikan flute tune throughout the season, as a sort of allegorical background, maybe something Chabon would do, hmm... But I disagree with Bennett's opinion on that aspect of Picard's fatherhood. I posted here, on one of the season episode discussion, my own problems with this but let me expand them now. It is true that Picard secret desires to be a father and have a family was apparently and definitively addressed on "The Inner Light" and on that not very good movie that is "Generations". Yet these instances are both examples of probabilities that through the magic of science fiction are transform into actualities.
On "The Inner Light" Picard is granted, on a very deep cognitive level, to live a full (and fulfilling) life as a scientist and family man with a wife and two children. Those experiences on Kataan were so deeply embedded on his mind that we can call them real. It shows very clearly that Picard have in him the abilities and the willingness to be a good father. And yet Picard is AWARE that it is a life that have come from the distant past to enrich his life as a human being that have freely CHOSEN to be a Starfleet officer. There is a fraction of a second that is very telling at the end of that extraordinary episode (the light of which we may never see again). Picard is sent to a medical evaluation and right before he is about to enter the turbolift, he turns and smile. Very soft, very briefly. To me, Stewart is very aptly conveying this about Picard: "I am glad to be here. This is my life, and to some extend these officers are members of my family. And one very important aspect of that life is that I have chosen NOT to have children. Fatherhood is a serious endeavor and we should not commit to it while hopping through the universe seeking adventure." But here is what it is so beautiful about "The Inner Light" (it's INNER light), on another layer it is giving US (the ecstatic watchers) the conviction that Picard -because the Kataan ancient simulation has already become part of his conscious mind- IT IS in fact a father without having to betray his ethical position on how to responsibly be a Starfleet officer. Hence future necessities (on future shows or episodes) to "fix" Picard on his imagined lack of family fulfillment should had being irrelevant!! It is just an extraordinary piece of fiction.
"Star Trek: Generations" do not give us that kind of enjoyment and stimulation (and I don't think The Nexus was a particularly well implemented idea on Trek). I briefly say this. The Nexus made real Picard's secrete desire to have a family. It brought to the surface that Picard was to some extent unhappy because he was never a father and never had a family of his own. Well, that is part of life. Often you have to weigh in your mind the things you actually have, what you stand for and the things you desire. I think The Nexus is a weaker example for Picard fatherhood hidden persona because the representation (a sort of Christmas Carol pastiche) is so cartoonish that one suspect that not even Picard would take his own desires seriously seen them like that. But it illustrate the importance of sacrifice for the military-oriented mind.
"The Inner Light" and "Generations" are like dream sequences. They are presented to Picard conscious mind as probabilities and, to a very palpable extend, viable realities living inside him. But the function of both ("Generations" and "The Inner Light") are as contrast, and as such they validate that sometimes the notion of sacrifice heightened the choices you had made for your life. By coming back from the idyllic, Christmas-postcard family scene in the Nexus, by incorporating to his mind his Kataan full life, Picard stresses the importance of the actual, real choice in his life: he does not regret his choice to remain childless.
One final thing bothers me about this whole affair of the botched Picard presented on PIC Season 3. It is more macro, related to the idealized Trek that I have in my head, and my opinion on the effect that these representations might have on society at large. WHY? Any writer or creator approaching the complexities of Picard should honestly asks themselves that question. Simply, why? Why should Picard be a family man and be a father? Let me tell you why NOT (again this is from the Trek I have in my head). The core philosophy of Star Trek is Infinite Diversity on Infinite Combination. If Trek is to survive the current onslaught of banality, status-quo propaganda, and weak storytelling then it must return to IDIC and the promises it harvest. What does it means? How to magnify it? Childless Picard was an example of IDIC. Picard represented a difference. Riker, a father. Worf, a father. LaForge, a father. Even Data, a father (they conveniently chose to forget that on S3). If the totality of the human social experiment is best exemplified by it's diversity, isn't it also true that people that choose not to have children could have a fulfilling life and be active participants on society? By not being a father, Picard was unique and therefore he made his community richer and more diverse. That is one of the many reason PIC is broken and that final shot of Picard and his all-white, straight family joking about nepotism is just offensive.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on May 17, 2023 2:04:54 GMT
I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with writing Jean-Luc as a father, late in life. There's actually quite a good bit of emotional possibility that could be mined there by the kind of writing that took Star Trek as a canvas via which to explore aspects of the human condition and do what it does best, which is take it to strange new places. However, that's the kind of approach that's looking to make good drama, something meaningful and genuinely memorable, not a nostalgic tour of the hits and the old horses. Sorry, space vessels. My issues stem with the fact that Picard S3 did exactly the opposite and did it all really badly. It was so hackneyed, so soapy, so joylessly, clumsily obvious and gracelessly heavy-handed in its approach that by the final couple of episodes I couldn't really believe what I was watching. Worse, that I'd paid for it, and even worse, that much of Trekmedia was hailing it as one of the best seasons of Trek ever.
There were a lot of opportunities here - and no, I don't have the energy to list 'em - but if people believe this ten-episode run is evidence of Terry Matalas as the savior of Star Trek, then I'm clearly living in the wrong universe. The highlighted point is something I'm having difficulty wrapping my brain around as well. My best guess is that it was all of the fan service, which was used to hide a weak and illogical story (full of plot holes, too). While I admit, I appreciated the finale's scenes on the Ent-D bridge and all of that, I still feel the season overall was weak. My favorite season of PIC remains season 1, if only for the fact that it did something different and elegantly closed a few arcs. Yes, season 1 of PIC was a mess as well, but I liked some of the new characters, and its bits of fan service weren't so violently shoved into my face.
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Post by MrPicard on May 17, 2023 7:54:25 GMT
I think in the long run this will fade tho. The rose-tinted nostalgia glasses will come off, and people will notice that the plot is absolutely horrendous. I mean if you look at it from a certain perspective, the fact that everyone is literally ONLY screaming about the TNG reunion says a lot already - there is literally nothing else that's special. But in the long run, this kind of nostalgia won't hold up. People will re-watch this. They won't have the tearful nostalgia again. And that's when they'll start to notice the plot holes.
If this season had been a season of Star Trek: Discovery, people would have ripped it to shreds. The only thing that prevented this is the return of the TNG cast. But this WILL wear off eventually, and people will notice that Matalas didn't deliver the banger they thought he delivered. Part of me even WANTS for him to get to make that Legacy show - it will show people in no uncertain terms that he is not a brilliant writer; it will reveal the gastly truth: That he's just a fanboy with a whole lot of badfic ideas. His only brilliant move was to bring in the TNG cast and playing the nostalgia tunes to mask his below-average story. If this guy is given his own show that DOESN'T have the TNG cast reunion, tho? It will be a disaster. He can bring in some legacy characters, but it won't be enough to mask the fact that his Star Trek is nothing special. The mask will come off, so to speak. The fandom will go from worshiping the ground he walks on to ripping his show into shreds. And honestly? I'd get myself some popcorn for that.
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