|
|
Post by RobinBland on Apr 23, 2023 23:42:39 GMT
I’d give real money if he’d shut up. One gets the feeling that IG post is one of those showrunner-to-showrunner “money in the PR bank” exercises. … I’d also really love to know what the original TNG writers think of this mess, off-the-record. We’ll never know, but Ron Moore (say)’s candid thoughts would surely be very entertaining. LOL! Love the McCoy line (well-used, too). My review was based more on watching it in a more immersive mode; I kind of let the sentiment just wash over me, and I enjoyed it a little more than I did while exercising with an iPad. It's NOT a good story, and it's nothing BUT derivative, but it is nice to see TNG cast getting a final hurrah that's a bit more conclusive than the open ends of the movies. It's more like watching a Star Trek parade than an episode. None of S3 PIC approaches the best of TNG, that's for sure, but with current Star Trek, my expectations are increasingly lowered as the franchise continues to (like the Borg Queen) feed on itself in order to survive. It’s nice enough in its sentimental way. I can’t deny that I felt a certain jaded appreciation just seeing them go through all the old moves. I love all those actors, so yeah, it pokes the nostalgia gland in the right way. But Matalas knows this about fans of a certain age, and I can’t stand being played to like that. They - and certainly all the characters - deserved a far better story, and certainly a less self-indulgent, manipulative one. I can’t help but think it sets a precedent, that precedent being that deep fan gushing and karaoke sing-alongs are enough to satisfy the audience; that this is all you need to do now. I’d have to say that I prefer S1 by some distance to those that followed, but that wasn’t exactly the best Star Trek has to offer, either. Picard, as a show, is wildly uneven in quality, but its peaks are pretty low. Overall, I’d have to say it was a crashing disappointment. A reconstituted 1701-D notwithstanding… I guess I’m still here: thetrekcontinues.freeforums.net/post/1572 |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 24, 2023 0:16:52 GMT
Oh, I can say that probably Moore isn't one to both barrels bad Trek choices by other writers. But, I bet Behr has a LOT of OTR thoughts. Moore was the first one that rolled off the top of my head, but yeah, Behr! I bet hearing him mouth off about it all would be hugely entertaining. All those guys, really - in my fantasy pub where writers are honest (and drunk enough) to let rip their truthful opinions about their successors’ work. Behr is so openly proud of the serialization and the depth in DS9. He's proud of it and defended vehemently in the days when DS9 had far fewer fans than now. I cannot imagine any world where he would be gushing over OIC S3. |
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 24, 2023 0:29:55 GMT
Moore was the first one that rolled off the top of my head, but yeah, Behr! I bet hearing him mouth off about it all would be hugely entertaining. All those guys, really - in my fantasy pub where writers are honest (and drunk enough) to let rip their truthful opinions about their successors’ work. Behr is so openly proud of the serialization and the depth in DS9. He's proud of it and defended vehemently in the days when DS9 had far fewer fans than now. I cannot imagine any world where he would be gushing over OIC S3. Me, neither. I've just made my peace with the fact that Terry Matalas' vision of Star Trek is as a big, audacious Easter egg hunt; a celebration, or parade of things he likes about Star Trek, but nothing that actually advances Star Trek. |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 24, 2023 0:45:42 GMT
Moore was the first one that rolled off the top of my head, but yeah, Behr! I bet hearing him mouth off about it all would be hugely entertaining. All those guys, really - in my fantasy pub where writers are honest (and drunk enough) to let rip their truthful opinions about their successors’ work. Behr and Moore are honest-to-goodness storytellers. The new shows are not even in their league. And yeah, given how critical Behr was of his OWN phenomenal work on DS9 ("What We Left Behind" doc), you can bet that with a few drinks in him, he'd rip a new one for every member of the PIC/DSC/LD writing staffs. Any season of "For All Mankind" is so far beyond anything PIC S3 scraped together in terms of quality that a near-layman like myself could do an 8-hour lecture on. |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 24, 2023 0:50:45 GMT
LOL! Love the McCoy line (well-used, too). My review was based more on watching it in a more immersive mode; I kind of let the sentiment just wash over me, and I enjoyed it a little more than I did while exercising with an iPad. It's NOT a good story, and it's nothing BUT derivative, but it is nice to see TNG cast getting a final hurrah that's a bit more conclusive than the open ends of the movies. It's more like watching a Star Trek parade than an episode. None of S3 PIC approaches the best of TNG, that's for sure, but with current Star Trek, my expectations are increasingly lowered as the franchise continues to (like the Borg Queen) feed on itself in order to survive. It’s nice enough in its sentimental way. I can’t deny that I felt a certain jaded appreciation just seeing them go through all the old moves. I love all those actors, so yeah, it pokes the nostalgia gland in the right way. But Matalas knows this about fans of a certain age, and I can’t stand being played to like that. They - and certainly all the characters - deserved a far better story, and certainly a less self-indulgent, manipulative one. I can’t help but think it sets a precedent, that precedent being that deep fan gushing and karaoke sing-alongs are enough to satisfy the audience; that this is all you need to do now. I’d have to say that I prefer S1 by some distance to those that followed, but that wasn’t exactly the best Star Trek has to offer, either. Picard, as a show, is wildly uneven in quality, but its peaks are pretty low. Overall, I’d have to say it was a crashing disappointment. A reconstituted 1701-D notwithstanding… I guess I’m still here: thetrekcontinues.freeforums.net/post/1572At least S1...quietly dared something different enough from what came before to justify bringing the character back. It wanted to say something, as very hit-and-miss as the result was. Being kind, the other seasons...did not. |
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 24, 2023 12:37:54 GMT
It’s nice enough in its sentimental way. I can’t deny that I felt a certain jaded appreciation just seeing them go through all the old moves. I love all those actors, so yeah, it pokes the nostalgia gland in the right way. But Matalas knows this about fans of a certain age, and I can’t stand being played to like that. They - and certainly all the characters - deserved a far better story, and certainly a less self-indulgent, manipulative one. I can’t help but think it sets a precedent, that precedent being that deep fan gushing and karaoke sing-alongs are enough to satisfy the audience; that this is all you need to do now. I’d have to say that I prefer S1 by some distance to those that followed, but that wasn’t exactly the best Star Trek has to offer, either. Picard, as a show, is wildly uneven in quality, but its peaks are pretty low. Overall, I’d have to say it was a crashing disappointment. A reconstituted 1701-D notwithstanding… I guess I’m still here: thetrekcontinues.freeforums.net/post/1572At least S1...quietly dared something different enough from what came before to justify bringing the character back. It wanted to say something, as very hit-and-miss as the result was. Being kind, the other seasons...did not. Of the three seasons to date, S1 is probably my favorite so far, and even that participation trophy is on the basis that--for once--I honestly didn't know what it was leading up to; it was a surprise. Not always a pleasant or rational one, but a surprise, nevertheless. Frankly, I would've (much) preferred it'd simply been a miniseries that ended with Jean-Luc in his new synth-body.
PIC is nowhere near the caliber of FAM. Hell, FAM is the prequel series that Star Trek should've had back in the early 2000s, but then again, writer/producer Ron Moore wouldn't have been available to make his version of "Battlestar Galactica" and that would've been a crime against the medium. |
|
|
|
Post by Tupperfan on Apr 25, 2023 1:14:25 GMT
I believe RDM doesn't need to "both barrels" (new saying I've learned, thanks Prom!) because the shows he created since his Trek days pretty much make any point he could want to make.
Hell, my girlfriend gave up on Trek (apart from SNW) a little while ago (somewhere during PIC S01 and DIS S03) and she recently told me she wanted to re-rewatch BSG (I believe it'd be her 3rd time) and also the first three seasons of FAM in preparation for S04... and she's not that much of a sci-fi fan (She's a fan of good TV, though)!
|
|
|
|
Post by Tupperfan on Apr 25, 2023 2:18:15 GMT
 That's great! Well, I finally put together a deep-dive on the episode; having watched it again on a large screen in a darkened room, some aspects of it were more entertaining, yet many nagging flaws (of the episode and the season) remain: Star Trek Picard: "The Last Generation" review/ SPOILERS! Great review Sehlat, and as Robin said, kinder than some of us would have been (although you remain pretty much on the dot).
One nitpick: You mention towards the end that Data's death (part one) was in INS instead of NEM.
AND FOR THAT... nothing will happen.  |
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 25, 2023 2:44:47 GMT
That's great! Well, I finally put together a deep-dive on the episode; having watched it again on a large screen in a darkened room, some aspects of it were more entertaining, yet many nagging flaws (of the episode and the season) remain: Star Trek Picard: "The Last Generation" review/ SPOILERS! Great review Sehlat, and has Robin said, kinder than some of us would have been (although you remain pretty much on the dot).
One nitpick: You mention towards the end that Data's death (part one) was in INS instead of NEM.
AND FOR THAT... nothing will happen. Thanks! And yes, my bad--the last two TNG movies are interchangeably awful to me, I guess.  Edit: And...it's fixed! Much appreciated. |
|
|
|
Post by Garak Nephew on Apr 26, 2023 0:43:48 GMT
That's great! Well, I finally put together a deep-dive on the episode; having watched it again on a large screen in a darkened room, some aspects of it were more entertaining, yet many nagging flaws (of the episode and the season) remain: Star Trek Picard: "The Last Generation" review/ SPOILERS! Great review! Thanks for posting it here. As Robin pointed out you are more benevolent than myself. I have been on a foul humor these past days and I attribute it to this PIC finale. I don't know, Trek have done so much for me that seen this thing "Picard" dragging the legacy to a sort of farce of shadows, is just gut-wrenching. But what is more painful is reading how Trek fans are just on the verge of declaring Matalas the new franchise god. It is really disheartening. At least SNW is coming soon... I am the guy that always see the glass half full never half empty. But here I am really trying to find something to like, and there is nothing. If I have to mention something I would say that Worf was well written, Klingon humor was really on point. And that's all about it. If by Star Trek "legacy" they mean this -this parading of stale faces, props and ships- then Trek is death. I would watch of course, but MY Trek will always remains in the 80's and 90's.
You: "These near-instant resurrections only cheapens the sacrifice of beloved characters." VERY TRUE! |
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 26, 2023 0:51:27 GMT
That's great! Well, I finally put together a deep-dive on the episode; having watched it again on a large screen in a darkened room, some aspects of it were more entertaining, yet many nagging flaws (of the episode and the season) remain: Star Trek Picard: "The Last Generation" review/ SPOILERS! Great review! Thanks for posting it here. As Robin pointed out you are more benevolent than myself. I have been on a foul humor these past days and I attribute it to this PIC finale. I don't know, Trek have done so much for me that seen this thing "Picard" dragging the legacy to a sort of farce of shadows, is just gut-wrenching. But what is more painful is reading how Trek fans are just on the verge of declaring Matalas the new franchise god. It is really disheartening. At least SNW is coming soon... I am the guy that always see the glass half full never half empty. But here I am really trying to find something to like, and there is nothing. If I have to mention something I would say that Worf was well written, Klingon humor was really on point. And that's all about it. If by Star Trek "legacy" they mean this -this parading of stale faces, props and ships- then Trek is death. I would watch of course, but MY Trek will always remains in the 80's and 90's.
You: "These near-instant resurrections only cheapens the sacrifice of beloved characters." VERY TRUE! I think I just made my peace with the whole thing; the 9 prior episodes were just a preamble for the big "reunion special" at the very end. At the very very least, it was a better sendoff than the ending of NEM. |
|
|
|
Post by SherlockHolmes on Apr 26, 2023 19:53:23 GMT
I strongly Disagree. It would have if there was just this episode to consider. BUT ALL OF THE REST OF PICARD, has destroyed the legacies of so many characters, killed off beloved characters...I rather have the Nemesis ending. And F" YOU MATALAS, THE ENTERPRISE-E is BETTER than the fat one(you know the one that couldn't hold its containment throughout the whole series?) , AND THE E IS STILL IN SERVICE UNDER CAPTAIN MARTIN MADDEN!!! (and no one probably knows who that is...  ) No one buys that high mileage for Flagships BS, the Enterprise 1701 was 40-45 years old so WALK OFF!!! Edit: The quote is not showing, I messed it up editing out the rest It was: " I think I just made my peace with the whole thing; the 9 prior episodes were just a preamble for the big "reunion special" at the very end. At the very very least, it was a better sendoff than the ending of NEM." |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 26, 2023 21:02:12 GMT
I strongly Disagree. It would have if there was just this episode to consider. BUT ALL OF THE REST OF PICARD, has destroyed the legacies of so many characters, killed off beloved characters...I rather have the Nemesis ending. And F" YOU MATALAS, THE ENTERPRISE-E is BETTER than the fat one(you know the one that couldn't hold its containment throughout the whole series?) , AND THE E IS STILL IN SERVICE UNDER CAPTAIN MARTIN MADDEN!!! (and no one probably knows who that is... ) No one buys that high mileage for Flagships BS, the Enterprise 1701 was 40-45 years old so WALK OFF!!! Edit: The quote is not showing, I messed it up editing out the rest It was: " I think I just made my peace with the whole thing; the 9 prior episodes were just a preamble for the big "reunion special" at the very end. At the very very least, it was a better sendoff than the ending of NEM." I agree. The ending I headcannon-ed for the after Nemesis may not have been perfect, but it was better than this. The post Borg scenes were not as awful as some of the rest of the series, but, by then, these people were dragged out husks of themselves 30 years ago. The damage was done, |
|
|
|
Post by MrPicard on Apr 27, 2023 8:48:21 GMT
I don't know what's so bad about the ending of Nemesis anyway. Yeah, Data died, that was a bummer. But what else was so bad? Riker and Troi went off to the Titan and on new adventures and Jean-Luc and LaForge (and maybe Worf?) continued on the Enterprise-E. If you include the deleted scenes, Crusher went off to Starfleet Medical and Martin Madden became the first officer. What's so bad about that? Yes, it splits up the crew but then it was highly unusual and unrealistic for a senior staff to stay together and intact for as long as the TNG crew did. It was time for a change. And, even better, everyone could have their own headcanon as to what happened next. Was Nemesis a good movie? No, not really. But did it have a bad ending? No, not really. Just because the movie is bad doesn't mean the ending is inherently bad as well. I don't get why the fandom always whines about Nemesis being such a bad send-off for the crew. It wasn't a masterpiece but the actual ENDING of the movie isn't bad??? It offers a new beginning. Which is the very essence of TNG. That being said, you can say whatever you want about the first two seasons of PIC, I know they have attracted their fair share of criticism, both deserved and undeserved (sometimes the hate became a bit TOO much and derailed into "hate for the sake of hate"), and I have some gripes myself because it's almost comical how major canonical things about Jean-Luc's life are utterly ignored for the sake of cheap drama, but at least they tried to walk into new territory. At least it was a new take on things. But then Matalas had to walk in waving his TNG fan fic and this is why we got what we got. If I had written this precise season as a fan fic people would have thrown tomatoes at me for all the fanservice and unrealistic plot twists, the abundance of soap opera tropes and the lack of depth and the glaring plot holes. The only thing that holds it all together is "LOOK IT'S THE TNG CREW LOOK LOOK OMG THEY'RE ON SCREEN TOGETHER HERE HERE NOSTALGIAAAA", and it worked - nobody is looking at what's actually happening, everyone is screaming about seeing the TNG crew back together on screen. I do suspect, however, that the final episode in particular will not withstand several rewatches and that people will begin to see the flaws once their nostalgia and "right in the childhood" moods have vanished. I wish Sir Patrick hadn't given in and had put his foot down and had said no to a full TNG reunion. Season 3 would have been much like the first two seasons but at least it would not have been a fanboy's badly written fan fic brought to life. I love how the final episode rushes to set up a sequel through massively unrealistic plot jumps - nepotism??? REALLY??? What is this Trump-esque nonsense of "the family name alone allowed a wanted criminal to finish Starfleet Acadamy in one year"? And why is Crusher suddenly an admiral after not having been nowhere near Starfleet for decades? Sorry but this is stuff you find in fan fic a 12 year old writes - and leaves major plot points unanswered. Does anyone even remember Laris? And has anyone explained how a literal DOCTOR ignores that she can get pregnant and how on EARTH both of them forgot about the injection and how Mister Reliable Jean-Luc Picard forgot to at least bring space condoms because the show literally establishes that HE DID NOT WANT KIDS so how about being prepared when going on vacation with the woman you're dating and oh by the way how does the whole "I did not want kids because my father was a jerk" work with the fact that he literally raised two kids and did so just fine oh I forgot, PIC as a whole dutifully ignores "The Inner Light" despite it actually being Terry Matatas' favorite TNG episode, lol you can't make this stuff up... I could go on all day. lol And I love how the entire season basically retcons the first two seasons into oblivion. I would love to read about how all this came to be at some point when all the NDAs have run out. I mean SOMEONE greelit this. SOMEONE must have been like "okay we're gonna hand the fanboy the keys, we know season 1 sucked and season 2 won't be much better so we gotta put all our hopes on season 3, let the fans eat as much nostalgia as they can, this will make them demand a spin-off we can then use to milk the TNG era some more". (They were shooting seasons 2 and 3 back to back, so, they must have known WAY in advance how this plays out and that season 3 would retcon so much of the previous seasons.)
I know all this sounds probably incredibly harsh now, but you have to take into account how much this entire show has made me want to just throw things because being a Sir Patrick fan was never this unpleasant. I don't agree with everything he does, we will always disagree about Jean-Luc Picard, for example, but the amount of vitriol that some Trekkies directed at him was utterly uncalled for. And to take things he said out of context to make them serve some kind of narrative was uncalled for as well. But some of the criticism was very much valid, and I understand that.
As you can see I have quite a bit of it myself, but at least with the first two seasons I could SEE where Sir Patrick and the writers were coming from. I could see the basics and why they did what they did. It still clashed with TNG canon in major ways (again, THE INNER LIGHT, HELLO, how is a man who literally had a wife and kids for many years "unable to settle down"?) but I could still see where they were all coming from even if it was from a position of "we only know the pop culture version of Jean-Luc Picard". With season 3 tho? All I can see is Matalas' badly written fic. It doesn't advance Jean-Luc as a character in any way. Especially not since he has been a father before. This should be nothing new for him, the only anxiety he should have is "oh no what if things aren't real THIS time either". If you look at season 3 from this angle it's even more of a wasted opportunity. Season 2 wasted a whole season on an unnecessary and constructed and misguided idea about his life already that simply watching "The Inner Light" would have wiped off the map before it was even put there, and season 3 then did the same thing all over again, only this time with an utterly needless nostalgia trip and yet another generic "the big baddie wants to destry the Federation" plot. At least season 2, for all its flaws, was innovative somewhere along the way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Garak Nephew on Apr 27, 2023 16:29:01 GMT
And has anyone explained how a literal DOCTOR ignores that she can get pregnant and how on EARTH both of them forgot about the injection and how Mister Reliable Jean-Luc Picard forgot to at least bring space condoms because the show literally establishes that HE DID NOT WANT KIDS so how about being prepared when going on vacation with the woman you're dating and oh by the way how does the whole "I did not want kids because my father was a jerk" work with the fact that he literally raised two kids and did so just fine oh I forgot, PIC as a whole dutifully ignores "The Inner Light" despite it actually being Terry Matatas' favorite TNG episode, lol you can't make this stuff up... I could go on all day. lol
This is probably what I find most infuriating in the whole season. I think it is one of the worse retcons ever on Trek history. I addressed it on my post here on Ep. 3 "Seventeen Seconds". This Picard accidental fatherhood is really really a bad idea. In my mind it broke the season for me. It transform one of Picard most important ethical and personal convictions and stands, into something trivial and unimportant. It is a deadly mistake on the story. |
|
|
|
Post by MrPicard on Apr 27, 2023 18:27:37 GMT
And has anyone explained how a literal DOCTOR ignores that she can get pregnant and how on EARTH both of them forgot about the injection and how Mister Reliable Jean-Luc Picard forgot to at least bring space condoms because the show literally establishes that HE DID NOT WANT KIDS so how about being prepared when going on vacation with the woman you're dating and oh by the way how does the whole "I did not want kids because my father was a jerk" work with the fact that he literally raised two kids and did so just fine oh I forgot, PIC as a whole dutifully ignores "The Inner Light" despite it actually being Terry Matatas' favorite TNG episode, lol you can't make this stuff up... I could go on all day. lol
This is probably what I find most infuriating in the whole season. I think it is one of the worse retcons ever on Trek history. I addressed it on my post here on Ep. 3 "Seventeen Seconds". This Picard accidental fatherhood is really really a bad idea. In my mind it broke the season for me. It transform one of Picard most important ethical and personal convictions and stands, into something trivial and unimportant. It is a deadly mistake on the story. Not to mention that it doesn't make any sense, especially not if you're a guy who (because the plot demands it since everybody is ignoring the two kids he already raised) is massively afraid of having kids. A man like Jean-Luc Picard would take ALL the precautions, and given the efficiency of 24th century medicine, this would be more than sufficient to prevent things. I love how Matalas' answer to this criticism on Twitter was basically "eh, just go along with it, we needed for the kid to be there somehow". Dude. That is not how you write in a kid. You're in charge of STAR TREK. Think of some technobabble origins. But not this lackluster and contradictory soap opera nonsense. I mean it clashes with itself. "Don't want any kids because extremely afraid of being a father" does not match with "oh I just slept with my love affair on vacation and didn't give any thought to birth control". Same sloppy reasoning as to why Jack looks ten years older than he actually is "ah we couldn't hire an actor in his early 20s, he wouldn't have been able to go up against Patrick Stewart" (has anyone heard of a certain young actress named Dafne Keen... she was more than able to go up against Sir Patrick in LOGAN... you just have to wait until you find the right person, you have to build your cast around your plot, not the other way around)... for the life of me I can't understand why people are worshiping this Matalas dude. He's one of the worst fan fic writers I've ever come across, and I've come across plenty. At least most other fan fic writers TRY to have their stories make at least SOME sense and give it SOME kind of plot coherency. Matalas is like a 12 year old kid who handed in his first Star Trek fan fic (my first fan fic was terrible as well, I know what I'm talking about) and then expects for everyone to just go along with his nonsensical reasoning, and, if they don't, he gets defensive, rude and childish.
I also love how he kept saying "I had to get this right, I had to get this right" about the final two episodes. Maybe if he'd spend a little more time on thinking about the actual plot and all the holes in it and how terribly some things are shoehorned in instead of worrying about getting the big TNG reunion scenes right (no need to worry here, the people in the TNG cast know how to act, they can do this, you don't have to hold their hands) things might have made a least a bit more sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 27, 2023 18:29:01 GMT
I don't know what's so bad about the ending of Nemesis anyway. Yeah, Data died, that was a bummer. But what else was so bad? Riker and Troi went off to the Titan and on new adventures and Jean-Luc and LaForge (and maybe Worf?) continued on the Enterprise-E. If you include the deleted scenes, Crusher went off to Starfleet Medical and Martin Madden became the first officer. What's so bad about that? Yes, it splits up the crew but then it was highly unusual and unrealistic for a senior staff to stay together and intact for as long as the TNG crew did. It was time for a change. And, even better, everyone could have their own headcanon as to what happened next. Was Nemesis a good movie? No, not really. But did it have a bad ending? No, not really. Just because the movie is bad doesn't mean the ending is inherently bad as well. I don't get why the fandom always whines about Nemesis being such a bad send-off for the crew. It wasn't a masterpiece but the actual ENDING of the movie isn't bad??? It offers a new beginning. Which is the very essence of TNG.
No one here would claim that Nemesis isn't rife with flaws, but speaking SOLEY about the ending, there's nothing wrong with it. The era has ended, most are going their separate ways, and "The human adventure continues." I was fine with it because the universal constant is change. You don't get assigned to work with one gang and then you work with them forever. You do not retire together or you die together in the same jobs. Hell, Riker would have been forced into the captaincy after BOBW. Period.
From my own admittedly anecdotal experience, the problem some fans have with it is in fact that the band broke up. They want an Undiscovered Country signature sail into the sunset as one big happy family. That's why PIC S3 can't shut the ---- up about the sentimentality of them all being together again and how much that all wuv each other sooo much. That's what they wanted. They've hated the idea of these people going on with their own lives.
That being said, you can say whatever you want about the first two seasons of PIC, I know they have attracted their fair share of criticism, both deserved and undeserved (sometimes the hate became a bit TOO much and derailed into "hate for the sake of hate"), and I have some gripes myself because it's almost comical how major canonical things about Jean-Luc's life are utterly ignored for the sake of cheap drama, but at least they tried to walk into new territory. At least it was a new take on things. But then Matalas had to walk in waving his TNG fan fic and this is why we got what we got. If I had written this precise season as a fan fic people would have thrown tomatoes at me for all the fanservice and unrealistic plot twists, the abundance of soap opera tropes and the lack of depth and the glaring plot holes. The only thing that holds it all together is "LOOK IT'S THE TNG CREW LOOK LOOK OMG THEY'RE ON SCREEN TOGETHER HERE HERE NOSTALGIAAAA", and it worked - nobody is looking at what's actually happening, everyone is screaming about seeing the TNG crew back together on screen. I do suspect, however, that the final episode in particular will not withstand several rewatches and that people will begin to see the flaws once their nostalgia and "right in the childhood" moods have vanished.
Completely agree. The show at least tried to justify its own existence for the first couple of years. S3 is "We give up, here's a greatest hits reel."
But, I dare say that the finale already hasn't been greeted with QUITE the gushing it could have been. No mistake, there PLENTY of squeeing like a teenage girl front row for an Elvis concert in the 50s. With EP 9 people started being a little more open to criticism and with the finale there's already a decent number that say, "I loved it, but..." That's only going to grow over time.
I love how the final episode rushes to set up a sequel through massively unrealistic plot jumps - nepotism??? REALLY??? What is this Trump-esque nonsense of "the family name alone allowed a wanted criminal to finish Starfleet Acadamy in one year"? And why is Crusher suddenly an admiral after not having been nowhere near Starfleet for decades? Sorry but this is stuff you find in fan fic a 12 year old writes - and leaves major plot points unanswered. Does anyone even remember Laris? And has anyone explained how a literal DOCTOR ignores that she can get pregnant and how on EARTH both of them forgot about the injection and how Mister Reliable Jean-Luc Picard forgot to at least bring space condoms because the show literally establishes that HE DID NOT WANT KIDS so how about being prepared when going on vacation with the woman you're dating and oh by the way how does the whole "I did not want kids because my father was a jerk" work with the fact that he literally raised two kids and did so just fine oh I forgot, PIC as a whole dutifully ignores "The Inner Light" despite it actually being Terry Matatas' favorite TNG episode, lol you can't make this stuff up... I could go on all day. lol
If they wanted to do this, you set it up so that, via plot babble, Jack gets a battlefield commission. He has to have X-level access to the computers to help fend Vadic off the Titan or something. THEN I could at least go with Starfleet saying, "Okay, Picard saved EVERYTHING and the kid helped, so we're not going to fight it."
But this apparently was all done after the "WE'RE SAVED!!!" high has worn off, and it makes no sense.
As for how Jack came to be? The only thing that truly makes sense is that JLP is a trusting fool and Dr. Bev lied to him about being on birth control. And this makes neither of them look good, and her look worse.
And, yes, at the end of the day, seasons one and two were wiped away as though they never happened and that's pretty sad. Because, again, as many problems as I had with the result, both of them tried to do something new..
|
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 28, 2023 0:12:36 GMT
I strongly Disagree. It would have if there was just this episode to consider. BUT ALL OF THE REST OF PICARD, has destroyed the legacies of so many characters, killed off beloved characters...I rather have the Nemesis ending. And F" YOU MATALAS, THE ENTERPRISE-E is BETTER than the fat one(you know the one that couldn't hold its containment throughout the whole series?) , AND THE E IS STILL IN SERVICE UNDER CAPTAIN MARTIN MADDEN!!! (and no one probably knows who that is... ) No one buys that high mileage for Flagships BS, the Enterprise 1701 was 40-45 years old so WALK OFF!!! Edit: The quote is not showing, I messed it up editing out the rest It was: " I think I just made my peace with the whole thing; the 9 prior episodes were just a preamble for the big "reunion special" at the very end. At the very very least, it was a better sendoff than the ending of NEM." I agree. The ending I headcannon-ed for the after Nemesis may not have been perfect, but it was better than this. The post Borg scenes were not as awful as some of the rest of the series, but, by then, these people were dragged out husks of themselves 30 years ago. The damage was done, NEM just felt abrupt and unresolved. PIC, for all its faults, at least tried to tie everything up in a big, splashy fan service bow. Not perfect, but I've gotten so used to the post-2017 iterations of Trek being so consistently... inconsistent. And for the record, I LOVE the Enterprise-E. It's one of my favorites, right behind the Enterprise-A and B. |
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Apr 28, 2023 0:51:16 GMT
I love how the final episode rushes to set up a sequel through massively unrealistic plot jumps - nepotism??? REALLY??? What is this Trump-esque nonsense of "the family name alone allowed a wanted criminal to finish Starfleet Acadamy in one year"? And why is Crusher suddenly an admiral after not having been nowhere near Starfleet for decades? Sorry but this is stuff you find in fan fic a 12 year old writes - and leaves major plot points unanswered. Does anyone even remember Laris? And has anyone explained how a literal DOCTOR ignores that she can get pregnant and how on EARTH both of them forgot about the injection and how Mister Reliable Jean-Luc Picard forgot to at least bring space condoms because the show literally establishes that HE DID NOT WANT KIDS so how about being prepared when going on vacation with the woman you're dating and oh by the way how does the whole "I did not want kids because my father was a jerk" work with the fact that he literally raised two kids and did so just fine oh I forgot, PIC as a whole dutifully ignores "The Inner Light" despite it actually being Terry Matatas' favorite TNG episode, lol you can't make this stuff up... I could go on all day. lol All of this is problematic but what I find worse is the amounts of people that loved it. It's like they had a brain switch turned to 'off' and couldn't see the inconsistencies, problems, etc...or simply did not care. This will encourage more of this subpar writing as long as it hits the nostalgia buttons. Matalas and crew know this and by god....it seemed to have worked. And then there's us....another type of Star Trek fan that watches these shows incredulous as to how others are nuts about it. I am reminded that we've had about 25 years(?) of this mix of daytime soap opera type of drivel and scifi with shows like Smallville. The CW DC shows continued that more or less. This is 'modern' tv writing. It's terrible but I feel there are generations of people to which this is the norm and a show like TNG feels as outdated as maybe what something like Knight Rider or the A-Team might for some of us of a certain age. Luckily Picard has ended and DSC is set to wrap up but this encourages TPTB to continue this with whatever new projects pop up(Section 31, whatever seems to be brewing with Seven as captain, etc...) or even changing current shows like SNW and Prodigy to fit that faux drama style. Ughhh..... I may not want to admit this but I can see how I check out of Star Trek in the next couple of years. It seems like I'm partly there already. |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 28, 2023 1:31:37 GMT
I love how the final episode rushes to set up a sequel through massively unrealistic plot jumps - nepotism??? REALLY??? What is this Trump-esque nonsense of "the family name alone allowed a wanted criminal to finish Starfleet Acadamy in one year"? And why is Crusher suddenly an admiral after not having been nowhere near Starfleet for decades? Sorry but this is stuff you find in fan fic a 12 year old writes - and leaves major plot points unanswered. Does anyone even remember Laris? And has anyone explained how a literal DOCTOR ignores that she can get pregnant and how on EARTH both of them forgot about the injection and how Mister Reliable Jean-Luc Picard forgot to at least bring space condoms because the show literally establishes that HE DID NOT WANT KIDS so how about being prepared when going on vacation with the woman you're dating and oh by the way how does the whole "I did not want kids because my father was a jerk" work with the fact that he literally raised two kids and did so just fine oh I forgot, PIC as a whole dutifully ignores "The Inner Light" despite it actually being Terry Matatas' favorite TNG episode, lol you can't make this stuff up... I could go on all day. lol All of this is problematic but what I find worse is the amounts of people that loved it. It's like they had a brain switch turned to 'off' and couldn't see the inconsistencies, problems, etc...or simply did not care. This will encourage more of this subpar writing as long as it hits the nostalgia buttons. Matalas and crew know this and by god....it seemed to have worked. And then there's us....another type of Star Trek fan that watches these shows incredulous as to how others are nuts about it. I am reminded that we've had about 25 years(?) of this mix of daytime soap opera type of drivel and scifi with shows like Smallville. The CW DC shows continued that more or less. This is 'modern' tv writing. It's terrible but I feel there are generations of people to which this is the norm and a show like TNG feels as outdated as maybe what something like Knight Rider or the A-Team might for some of us of a certain age. Luckily Picard has ended and DSC is set to wrap up but this encourages TPTB to continue this with whatever new projects pop up(Section 31, whatever seems to be brewing with Seven as captain, etc...) or even changing current shows like SNW and Prodigy to fit that faux drama style. Ughhh..... I may not want to admit this but I can see how I check out of Star Trek in the next couple of years. It seems like I'm partly there already. That's my biggest problem: way, way...way too many people honestly thought that was good. And these are the same people that will pick apart DSC, correctly a lot of times, but, for this it's like. OMG!!!! IT'S THE D. IT'S THE Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!! I don't care, this is AWESOME!!!!!!! I have never been so starved for nostalgia. |
|
|
|
Post by Tupperfan on Apr 28, 2023 1:59:02 GMT
I may not want to admit this but I can see how I check out of Star Trek in the next couple of years. It seems like I'm partly there already. I've said it before, but I have a hand on the exit door handle myself. I'm still inside because I so much want a reason to stay in. |
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 28, 2023 3:59:01 GMT
All of this is problematic but what I find worse is the amounts of people that loved it. It's like they had a brain switch turned to 'off' and couldn't see the inconsistencies, problems, etc...or simply did not care. This will encourage more of this subpar writing as long as it hits the nostalgia buttons. Matalas and crew know this and by god....it seemed to have worked. And then there's us....another type of Star Trek fan that watches these shows incredulous as to how others are nuts about it. I am reminded that we've had about 25 years(?) of this mix of daytime soap opera type of drivel and scifi with shows like Smallville. The CW DC shows continued that more or less. This is 'modern' tv writing. It's terrible but I feel there are generations of people to which this is the norm and a show like TNG feels as outdated as maybe what something like Knight Rider or the A-Team might for some of us of a certain age. Luckily Picard has ended and DSC is set to wrap up but this encourages TPTB to continue this with whatever new projects pop up(Section 31, whatever seems to be brewing with Seven as captain, etc...) or even changing current shows like SNW and Prodigy to fit that faux drama style. Ughhh..... I may not want to admit this but I can see how I check out of Star Trek in the next couple of years. It seems like I'm partly there already. That's my biggest problem: way, way...way too many people honestly thought that was good. And these are the same people that will pick apart DSC, correctly a lot of times, but, for this it's like. OMG!!!! IT'S THE D. IT'S THE Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!! I don't care, this is AWESOME!!!!!!! I have never been so starved for nostalgia. Speaking only for myself, I think my lack of care these days combined with my increasingly lowered standards for this show leave me feeling vaguely satisfied in that it didn't suck as badly as Season 2. |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 28, 2023 5:31:04 GMT
That's my biggest problem: way, way...way too many people honestly thought that was good. And these are the same people that will pick apart DSC, correctly a lot of times, but, for this it's like. OMG!!!! IT'S THE D. IT'S THE Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!! I don't care, this is AWESOME!!!!!!! I have never been so starved for nostalgia. Speaking only for myself, I think my lack of care these days combined with my increasingly lowered standards for this show leave me feeling vaguely satisfied in that it didn't suck as badly as Season 2. Well, yes, I can take it that far because the ending was fairly satisfactory if not completely satisfying, but S3 feels worse in a way because, while S2 was bad, it never felt...manipulative in its presentation. S3 had a lot of the same problems, but it tried to cover them over with, "Hey, look. Kirk is still alive!" |
|
|
|
Post by MrPicard on Apr 28, 2023 8:34:16 GMT
I can only highly recommend getting away from Star Trek as a franchise. It makes you a lot more selective about what parts of the franchise you want to watch and which ones to ignore/not bother with in the first place. And it takes away a lot of frustration.
I'm not surprised the fandom gobbled up PIC's season 3 the way it did. You have to take into account that people demanded a TNG reunion series from the start. Despite Sir Patrick saying over and over again that it wasn't going to be TNG 2.0. The fans didn't want to hear that. They wanted their reunion show. They wanted to see their beloved TNG characters back on screen. They wanted their chilhood nostalgia. All Paramount had to do was bring the TNG cast back and market it right. Part of me thinks this was their plan all along - soothe Sir Patrick by giving him what he wants for two seasons and then persuade him to give in to make a reunion show that retcons the previous seasons as best as it can and gives the fans what they want and they won't notice how terrible the plot actually is because by that point they will be so starved for anything familiar that they will eat it all up, no questions asked, and then they will demand more of the mindless nostalgia and all you have to do is feed them more with a spin-off show that you blatantly and clumsily set up in the final episode, so, win-win for Paramount. I refuse to believe that Matalas didn't know what he was doing, I don't believe his "it's an ending for the TNG crew" innocence even one bit - he set things up like this deliberately in the final episode so that a spin-off could be produced. None of this is an accident.
Which is also why Matalas took no risks with this. Season 3 got rid of ANYTHING that might seem "controversial". They dialed back Seven and Raffi to a point where they're unrecognizable as a couple, there are no "progressive allegories" like the ones season 2 had that might upset conservative fans, the show is basically about old white dudes saving the universe with a little help from some black sidekick characters... etc. This plays a huge role as to why season 3 is so popular with a certain Youtube audience as well. To put it bluntly: Season 3 is a show written by a straight white dude for straight white dudes. It's as simple as that.
My favorite (read this sarcastically) thing is that Matalas was all like "no, not really, nobody has time for romance in season 3" when he was asked about Seven and Raffi in season 3. And yet the first episode gives Jean-Luc and Laris sharing a kiss. Looks like romance to me. It then proceeds to hit the audience over the head with the (massively toxic) former straight romance between Jean-Luc and Crusher. It shows Riker and Troi, another straight romance. But "there is no time for romance" when it comes to the only visibly lgbt characters the show had. That tells you everything about how Matalas approached this particular issue. It sounds VERY much like a certain Rick Berman, who had the same kind of arguments as to why he never had any lgbt characters on TNG. This is what I mean when I say Matalas took no risks and this is one major reason why a certain part of the Trek fandom loves this season so much. It gave them what they're used to and it didn't try to "shove progressive stuff down our throats".
I have seen at least some criticism towards the final two episodes as well tho, and I'm glad I did. This is one reason why I think quite a few people who were baited into loving every single second of the nostalgia fest will lose the rose-tinted glasses at some point and realize that season 3 as a whole is not as awesome as they were manipulated into believing.
As for Jack... I could go on for days about how his presence makes no sense and how the show did a "great" job at turning Crusher into a massively toxic gaslighting galore character that not even I think she deserved, but eh. Whatever. They did what they did. All I can do is ignore this and decide that TNG ended with Nemesis, just as it should have. lol
|
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 28, 2023 15:17:39 GMT
I can only highly recommend getting away from Star Trek as a franchise. It makes you a lot more selective about what parts of the franchise you want to watch and which ones to ignore/not bother with in the first place. And it takes away a lot of frustration. I'm not surprised the fandom gobbled up PIC's season 3 the way it did. You have to take into account that people demanded a TNG reunion series from the start. Despite Sir Patrick saying over and over again that it wasn't going to be TNG 2.0. The fans didn't want to hear that. They wanted their reunion show. They wanted to see their beloved TNG characters back on screen. They wanted their chilhood nostalgia. All Paramount had to do was bring the TNG cast back and market it right. Part of me thinks this was their plan all along - soothe Sir Patrick by giving him what he wants for two seasons and then persuade him to give in to make a reunion show that retcons the previous seasons as best as it can and gives the fans what they want and they won't notice how terrible the plot actually is because by that point they will be so starved for anything familiar that they will eat it all up, no questions asked, and then they will demand more of the mindless nostalgia and all you have to do is feed them more with a spin-off show that you blatantly and clumsily set up in the final episode, so, win-win for Paramount. I refuse to believe that Matalas didn't know what he was doing, I don't believe his "it's an ending for the TNG crew" innocence even one bit - he set things up like this deliberately in the final episode so that a spin-off could be produced. None of this is an accident. Which is also why Matalas took no risks with this. Season 3 got rid of ANYTHING that might seem "controversial". They dialed back Seven and Raffi to a point where they're unrecognizable as a couple, there are no "progressive allegories" like the ones season 2 had that might upset conservative fans, the show is basically about old white dudes saving the universe with a little help from some black sidekick characters... etc. This plays a huge role as to why season 3 is so popular with a certain Youtube audience as well. To put it bluntly: Season 3 is a show written by a straight white dude for straight white dudes. It's as simple as that. My favorite (read this sarcastically) thing is that Matalas was all like "no, not really, nobody has time for romance in season 3" when he was asked about Seven and Raffi in season 3. And yet the first episode gives Jean-Luc and Laris sharing a kiss. Looks like romance to me. It then proceeds to hit the audience over the head with the (massively toxic) former straight romance between Jean-Luc and Crusher. It shows Riker and Troi, another straight romance. But "there is no time for romance" when it comes to the only visibly lgbt characters the show had. That tells you everything about how Matalas approached this particular issue. It sounds VERY much like a certain Rick Berman, who had the same kind of arguments as to why he never had any lgbt characters on TNG. This is what I mean when I say Matalas took no risks and this is one major reason why a certain part of the Trek fandom loves this season so much. It gave them what they're used to and it didn't try to "shove progressive stuff down our throats". I have seen at least some criticism towards the final two episodes as well tho, and I'm glad I did. This is one reason why I think quite a few people who were baited into loving every single second of the nostalgia fest will lose the rose-tinted glasses at some point and realize that season 3 as a whole is not as awesome as they were manipulated into believing. As for Jack... I could go on for days about how his presence makes no sense and how the show did a "great" job at turning Crusher into a massively toxic gaslighting galore character that not even I think she deserved, but eh. Whatever. They did what they did. All I can do is ignore this and decide that TNG ended with Nemesis, just as it should have. lol And the Berman era is at least a little defensible when it comes to representation, as it was a very different era, especially when it came to the suits above him that wrote all the checks. Sidelining Seven and Raffi was a deliberate choice when embracing them costs very little in 2023 except to that same sliver of fandom that has also always been incensed by the fact that Michael Burnham was a black woman. But, I have to say, tricking Picard into fatherhood? Gaslighting him? Abandoning her friends for 20 years? I don't think any of that is THAT far out of character. Because she has always been, "If I'm right, I'm right, and I'm gonna do what I think is right, and ---- all of you if you don't get why I'm right." |
|
|
|
Post by MrPicard on Apr 28, 2023 17:36:54 GMT
Thankfully, the Seven/Raffi fandom isn't having it, I've seen several of them calling Matalas out for his attitude and for downright lying in interviews. He even said that Seven and Raffi would have some kind of satisfying arc... where was that? You gotta love the queerbating that went on here. (Not.) And it's a disgrace that the show seemed content to just think "ah we have Seven and Raffi as our lesbian poster girls, now everyone else can be straight, let's get into THOSE relationships now, no need to bother with the lesbians anymore, the fans will eat it up anyway". It's pretty clear that Matalas had no intention of upsetting a certain part of the Trek fandom by having more of Seven and Raffi, and in return he got their full endorsement. The moment I saw these people endorsing season 3? I knew this was not a good sign. At all. I knew this meant that it's a generic, safe little story where no boundaries get pushed and at the end we have a happy ending like we always had on TNG when the ship flew to its next adventure, giving everyone a fuzzy feeling of "everything is fine now".
It is true, it is in-character for Crusher to do what she did, but this was a chance for the writers to actually live up to what they kept saying - that Crusher would be different from TNG, that she would be a core part of what's going on, that she would finally get stuff to do... and what happened? She's once again the main character's romantic will-they-won't-they sidekick, only this time she's the ex with the kid she never mentioned she had and she's once again mostly a mother (Wesley's absence would have been the PERFECT chance to actually let her be something OTHER than a mother for ONCE). So where's the awesome Crusher that they promised? She's even WORSE now than she was on TNG because now she comes across as not only arrogant like on TNG but also downright VILE, what with robbing Jean-Luc of the chance of being a father. If her reasoning had at least made sense. But no. "I kept him away because you were always in danger". Umm. The kid was like what, three years old when Jean-Luc retired to his vineyard, and the only danger was him stumbling over some vines... and so on and so on. Like I said, I could go on all day.
|
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Apr 28, 2023 18:37:59 GMT
Thankfully, the Seven/Raffi fandom isn't having it, I've seen several of them calling Matalas out for his attitude and for downright lying in interviews. He even said that Seven and Raffi would have some kind of satisfying arc... where was that? You gotta love the queerbating that went on here. (Not.) And it's a disgrace that the show seemed content to just think "ah we have Seven and Raffi as our lesbian poster girls, now everyone else can be straight, let's get into THOSE relationships now, no need to bother with the lesbians anymore, the fans will eat it up anyway". It's pretty clear that Matalas had no intention of upsetting a certain part of the Trek fandom by having more of Seven and Raffi, and in return he got their full endorsement. The moment I saw these people endorsing season 3? I knew this was not a good sign. At all. I knew this meant that it's a generic, safe little story where no boundaries get pushed and at the end we have a happy ending like we always had on TNG when the ship flew to its next adventure, giving everyone a fuzzy feeling of "everything is fine now". I was introduced to this term of 'queerbaiting' recently. It fits. I saw very little that would even constitute a romantic relationship between them. Strong friendship perhaps. Maybe something there....but romantic relationship felt like a forced stretched. It's kinda how Sulu in the JJverse was supposed to be all of a sudden gay because he was met by another Asian man with a young kid? As far as I knew that could have been his brother, cousin, and their child. Not Sulu. I've rewatched the scene many times to see if I missed something. Did they kiss? Did I miss that? I have no clue. Having said that, and this season with the 'old' couples furthers demonstrates, Star Trek can't do romantic relationships well. The only best example of such was the guys in Discovery. I really enjoyed the mundane aspects of a married couple. Brushing their teeth in the morning. That felt real. The rest of the show is garbage for me but they got it right with those two characters. |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 28, 2023 19:16:22 GMT
Thankfully, the Seven/Raffi fandom isn't having it, I've seen several of them calling Matalas out for his attitude and for downright lying in interviews. He even said that Seven and Raffi would have some kind of satisfying arc... where was that? You gotta love the queerbating that went on here. (Not.) And it's a disgrace that the show seemed content to just think "ah we have Seven and Raffi as our lesbian poster girls, now everyone else can be straight, let's get into THOSE relationships now, no need to bother with the lesbians anymore, the fans will eat it up anyway". It's pretty clear that Matalas had no intention of upsetting a certain part of the Trek fandom by having more of Seven and Raffi, and in return he got their full endorsement. The moment I saw these people endorsing season 3? I knew this was not a good sign. At all. I knew this meant that it's a generic, safe little story where no boundaries get pushed and at the end we have a happy ending like we always had on TNG when the ship flew to its next adventure, giving everyone a fuzzy feeling of "everything is fine now". It is true, it is in-character for Crusher to do what she did, but this was a chance for the writers to actually live up to what they kept saying - that Crusher would be different from TNG, that she would be a core part of what's going on, that she would finally get stuff to do... and what happened? She's once again the main character's romantic will-they-won't-they sidekick, only this time she's the ex with the kid she never mentioned she had and she's once again mostly a mother (Wesley's absence would have been the PERFECT chance to actually let her be something OTHER than a mother for ONCE). So where's the awesome Crusher that they promised? She's even WORSE now than she was on TNG because now she comes across as not only arrogant like on TNG but also downright VILE, what with robbing Jean-Luc of the chance of being a father. If her reasoning had at least made sense. But no. "I kept him away because you were always in danger". Umm. The kid was like what, three years old when Jean-Luc retired to his vineyard, and the only danger was him stumbling over some vines... and so on and so on. Like I said, I could go on all day. Also, we probably should not forget that now, Dr. Crusher can manually target the D's phasers at least as well and Worf ever could and that BOTH she and bragged like mad over the fact that they'd gone through some things and had more than a few close calls. Uhhh...doesn't sound like she's been keeping her precious Jack out of danger, does it? Seems to me that being with Papa at the vineyard, for all the old enemies that may have been lurking in the shadow was still the safer bet that going into one hot spot after another with mom and her outmanned and outgunned ship. |
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Apr 28, 2023 21:49:20 GMT
Seems to me that being with Papa at the vineyard, for all the old enemies that may have been lurking in the shadow was still the safer bet that going into one hot spot after another with mom and her outmanned and outgunned ship. Not to mention that Picard had former Romulan intelligentsia as employees and close friends. They would have made sure that area would be well protected. |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 28, 2023 22:12:21 GMT
Seems to me that being with Papa at the vineyard, for all the old enemies that may have been lurking in the shadow was still the safer bet that going into one hot spot after another with mom and her outmanned and outgunned ship. Not to mention that Picard had former Romulan intelligentsia as employees and close friends. They would have made sure that area would be well protected. At the very least they'd provide plenty of warning. But Beverly's whining about keeping Jack away from all the peril that follows Jean-Luc is hogwash since she's not holed up in some monastery with him somewhere.. |
|
) No one buys that high mileage for Flagships BS, the Enterprise 1701 was 40-45 years old so WALK OFF!!! 
