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Post by SherlockHolmes on Apr 16, 2024 17:36:02 GMT
Indeed. A lot of those who were extremely vocal about hating the first two seasons were pandered to with the third season (just look at how Matalas sucked up to people like Robert Meyer Burnett, who had hated on every single thing the first two seasons did) - and they got what they always wanted: TNG 2.0 Nostalgia Bait and Matalas made it as easy as he possibly could for them to ignore the first two seasons because he undid pretty much everything major that they established. No wonder they were all over it. I hate the first 2 seasons with a passion. Putting that out there. Season 3, yeah I wanted the crew back, but this pandering to the fans was nauseating. GIVE ME BACK THE ENTERPRISE-E If you must have the D, RETROFIT IT TO MATCH THE AGT ENT-D Drop the flipping melodrama between main cast members. God thats putting them all out of character Prograssion! Progression, progression, progression... STOP FKING KILLING OFF FAN FAVORITES, ESPECALLY IN STUPID WAYS I.E. Shelby and Ro. Turn on the g-dmned LIGHTS!!!! Also, TURN ON THE DAMNED LIGHTS and one other thing .. TURN ON THE FKING LIGHTS Also Drop the Troi suffering BS. Also, TURN ON THE GDMNED LIGHTS.... so in conclusion....WE NEED LIGHT
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Post by MrPicard on Apr 18, 2024 9:24:42 GMT
I remember Matalas saying he didn't "intend" for things to look like as if someone hadn't paid the electricity bill. But then this is a general problem with a lot of current television shows, I can't put this one on PIC alone. There are entire episodes of The Walking Dead where I can't see a thing and have to rely on subtitles to explain what's going on. This development sucks, and it does suck even more that Matalas thought he had to follow that style, too.
And yeah, what IS it with PIC killing off all the fan favorites. You'd think they learned their lesson after the Hugh outrage from season 1, but I guess the opposite was the case.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 29, 2024 20:29:41 GMT
So.........I plan on attending the Trek con in Vegas, and this appeared in my inbox:
Best known for helming the third and final season of Star Trek: Picard, Terry will be on hand to answer questions on stage, take photo ops and sell his autographs directly to fans in the vendors room.
PLUS, Terry will offer an exclusive Writers Workshop for those looking for an unprecedented tutorial on writing for genre television. In this 90-minute workshop, he'll discuss how to break and make a Star Trek show in production. Participants will be able to work interactively with Terry to create a story and examine all the challenges that come with developing a show (i.e. the actors might not like certain aspects or the budget may be too tight). There is limited space, so scoop up tickets at each destination!
***
With Ron Moore, and Ira Behr at the convention, you think I'd want to go to a Matalas-run writer's workshop?
Hahahahahahahahahaha...............
No.
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Post by MrPicard on Apr 30, 2024 12:12:18 GMT
Might actually be interesting though - wouldn't it be hilarious if he runs into someone who actually knows how to write a story and not a teenager's badfic and takes his nonsense apart? lol
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 30, 2024 16:13:12 GMT
Might actually be interesting though - wouldn't it be hilarious if he runs into someone who actually knows how to write a story and not a teenager's badfic and takes his nonsense apart? lol Heh.... If I knew, say, that Ira Behr was gonna be in there and raise his hand, I'm not sure you could keep me away.
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Post by BeastBoy on Apr 30, 2024 17:53:54 GMT
Hi! Take a look at this!
What do you think about that?
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 30, 2024 18:22:28 GMT
LOL.
Really? This guy thinks old Star Trek was "subtle?" That it wasn't, as he puts it, "preachy, shoot-from-the-hip crap that didn't hit people over the head with the message?"
Oh, man.
Old Trek wasn't preachy?
How about "Let That Be your Last Battlefield?" Preachy. "The Outcast?" Preachy. "The Neutral Zone?" (i.e. the 20th Century humans are barbarians) Preachy and condescending.
I really could go on.
Maybe he should watch that first episode with Barclay again. "The crew found a way to relate to him, nurture him, and to bring him out of his shell."
* After his previous Captain and crew were so uncomfortable with him, they kicked him off the ship. (i.e. shipping the problem off)
* The senior staff of the Enterprise OPENLY MOCKS HIM with 'Commander Broccoli" and Riker does NOTHING to immediately put a stop to the disrespect. It's Picard that has to order the XO to end that.
* Picard calls the man, 'Mr. Broccoli' to his face. Admittedly, this is an accident, but nor is there any indication that he ever personally apologized for it.
* LaForge only reaches out to Barclay after having been ordered to do so.
(i.e. these are snippy, arrogant, people)
Please though, I don't want to get in the way of this dude's cherry picking.
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Post by MrPicard on May 2, 2024 12:21:11 GMT
I'm as tired of the mindless glorification of Old Trek as I am of the "all new Trek is inherently bad" narrative. TNG has a massive amount of flaws and horrible episodes. Sure, PIC is terrible as well, but TNG is by no means amazing at all times. If TNG was made today, people would be picking it apart just as much as they're picking apart PIC. And often rightfully so.
The issue I have with PIC is that it likes to draw inspiration from TNG in a really annoying way - it ignores what isn't convenient for the contrived plots. It puts the plot first instead of wondering if it actually fits to the character of Jean-Luc Picard. This doesn't automatically mean that TNG was perfect tho. It simply means that, for better or worse, TNG established a universe and a history of Jean-Luc Picard that PIC often flat out ignores. Whether that history was established within good episodes on a good show is a subject for an entirely different debate.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 2, 2024 16:38:26 GMT
I'm as tired of the mindless glorification of Old Trek as I am of the "all new Trek is inherently bad" narrative. TNG has a massive amount of flaws and horrible episodes. Sure, PIC is terrible as well, but TNG is by no means amazing at all times. If TNG was made today, people would be picking it apart just as much as they're picking apart PIC. And often rightfully so. The issue I have with PIC is that it likes to draw inspiration from TNG in a really annoying way - it ignores what isn't convenient for the contrived plots. It puts the plot first instead of wondering if it actually fits to the character of Jean-Luc Picard. This doesn't automatically mean that TNG was perfect tho. It simply means that, for better or worse, TNG established a universe and a history of Jean-Luc Picard that PIC often flat out ignores. Whether that history was established within good episodes on a good show is a subject for an entirely different debate. I agree. Much of PIC S3 makes stand-ups of these people do things. (What do i want Riker to do? as opposed to, What would Riker do?) and it makes me cringe because I know these people, or at least thought I did.
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Post by MrPicard on May 3, 2024 6:00:40 GMT
I'm as tired of the mindless glorification of Old Trek as I am of the "all new Trek is inherently bad" narrative. TNG has a massive amount of flaws and horrible episodes. Sure, PIC is terrible as well, but TNG is by no means amazing at all times. If TNG was made today, people would be picking it apart just as much as they're picking apart PIC. And often rightfully so. The issue I have with PIC is that it likes to draw inspiration from TNG in a really annoying way - it ignores what isn't convenient for the contrived plots. It puts the plot first instead of wondering if it actually fits to the character of Jean-Luc Picard. This doesn't automatically mean that TNG was perfect tho. It simply means that, for better or worse, TNG established a universe and a history of Jean-Luc Picard that PIC often flat out ignores. Whether that history was established within good episodes on a good show is a subject for an entirely different debate. I agree. Much of PIC S3 makes stand-ups of these people do things. (What do i want Riker to do? as opposed to, What would Riker do?) and it makes me cringe because I know these people, or at least thought I did. Yeah I get what you mean. The whole "well they're older now" narrative doesn't work at all, no matter if we're talking JLP on PIC's first two seasons or all of the TNG crew in season 3. The worst idea was to ask the cast where they think their characters are now and to then follow their advice instead of re-watching TNG (and in Worf's case also DS9) and coming up with something that actually makes sense for the character. Gates McFadden still defends Crusher's nonsense explanation of why Crusher never told Jean-Luc she was pregnant with his child, just as much as she still thinks "The Host" sent a great message to the LGBT community... this alone should have told them to maybe not ask the cast for too much input.
What IS it with asking the cast. They last played these characters a zillion years ago. They don't remember most of what happened on TNG. They just took wild guesses as to what their characters are up to now based on the few moments they remember from TNG. It boggles the mind. Actors are actors, not writers. I mean yeah, sure, they can have SOME say, I'm not saying Matalas should have hit them over the head with the scripts, there SHOULD be some kind of talk but the writers should always make it clear that they're the ones in charge.
I mean they fell into a hellhole already when they based the entire idea of PIC on Sir Patrick and what he felt comfortable with instead of saying "this is what we established for him and what makes sense for him, you can have a say over some scenes play out like you had on TNG but that's it, take it or leave it". I know they only did this because he wouldn't have agreed with the show otherwise but still. Then he would have said no. Take the no and film the Short Trek you originally wanted where a young JLP meets Uhura (that's where the whole PIC disaster of "let's pitch something to Patrick Stewart" originated from).
I mean they still would have made a mess of things with PIC because they hired a novel writer instead of a television writer but at least Jean-Luc would have been more in character. Of course Sir Patrick didn't write the show, I don't like THAT myth either... but the whole show came to be only because he was asked to give his blessings. That's not how things should work. I don't blame him. He just saw an opportunity to play a new thing. That's what actors do. I blame those who approached him with this kind of attitude. They should have left it all well enough alone and should have just done their Short Trek.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 3, 2024 15:28:57 GMT
I agree. Much of PIC S3 makes stand-ups of these people do things. (What do i want Riker to do? as opposed to, What would Riker do?) and it makes me cringe because I know these people, or at least thought I did. Yeah I get what you mean. The whole "well they're older now" narrative doesn't work at all, no matter if we're talking JLP on PIC's first two seasons or all of the TNG crew in season 3. The worst idea was to ask the cast where they think their characters are now and to then follow their advice instead of re-watching TNG (and in Worf's case also DS9) and coming up with something that actually makes sense for the character. Gates McFadden still defends Crusher's nonsense explanation of why Crusher never told Jean-Luc she was pregnant with his child, just as much as she still thinks "The Host" sent a great message to the LGBT community... this alone should have told them to maybe not ask the cast for too much input.
What IS it with asking the cast. They last played these characters a zillion years ago. They don't remember most of what happened on TNG. They just took wild guesses as to what their characters are up to now based on the few moments they remember from TNG. It boggles the mind. Actors are actors, not writers. I mean yeah, sure, they can have SOME say, I'm not saying Matalas should have hit them over the head with the scripts, there SHOULD be some kind of talk but the writers should always make it clear that they're the ones in charge. I mean they fell into a hellhole already when they based the entire idea of PIC on Sir Patrick and what he felt comfortable with instead of saying "this is what we established for him and what makes sense for him, you can have a say over some scenes play out like you had on TNG but that's it, take it or leave it". I know they only did this because he wouldn't have agreed with the show otherwise but still. Then he would have said no. Take the no and film the Short Trek you originally wanted where a young JLP meets Uhura (that's where the whole PIC disaster of "let's pitch something to Patrick Stewart" originated from). I mean they still would have made a mess of things with PIC because they hired a novel writer instead of a television writer but at least Jean-Luc would have been more in character. Of course Sir Patrick didn't write the show, I don't like THAT myth either... but the whole show came to be only because he was asked to give his blessings. That's not how things should work. I don't blame him. He just saw an opportunity to play a new thing. That's what actors do. I blame those who approached him with this kind of attitude. They should have left it all well enough alone and should have just done their Short Trek.
I have to wonder why you'd ask the actor where they think the character is 30 years after the fact. Maybe they actually have a kernel of an idea that you can use, but I don't understand why it was done as was basically done with Stweart/Picard, with Picard being written as Stewart saw him? How much do any of them remember in context of the character? They come in and do the scene, and maybe they remember it because it was a powerful scene...or they remember the episode because the craft services table flipped over or that was the week one of the lighting guys cut his hand open. It seems that very few actors watch their finished work, at least according to interviews with various actors over decades that I've seen. I think that's fine in general, but if you're going to revisit this thing a generation down the road, I think it's kind of important to do so, so that you can remember what happened to this character and to get a sense of him as others have seen him for three decades. I think that's critical context that you need. And, I think Matalas was far too fanboy about the material to the point that he couldn't look at it objectively. There was no one to tell HIM "no" either and he doesn't seem like a man who can self-censor or critique. As for Mcfadden, after attending many a convention at this point, I can tell you two things: it doesn't take a lot to get her sounding defensive about Crusher and she's always had an overinflated sense of the character's importance or impact. For me, personally, she's the last Trek doctor I'd wanna set up an appointment with.
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Post by MrPicard on May 4, 2024 13:09:51 GMT
The worst thing is that Sir Patrick has said that the whole idea for the show that they approached him with is nothing like what we eventually got. So, they somehow managed to make it all even WORSE. (He said the only thing that remained from the pitch they gave him was the bit about Romulan refugees.) The basic idea was the same tho, of course - "he has changed and so have you". Which in itself is not a bad premise. It's logical. In my work I've also written a changed Jean-Luc when he is older. It wouldn't make sense for him to be the same guy he was at the end of Nemesis. That part I agree with.
I can see where Sir Patrick was coming from. Back in the TNG days he was so intertwined with Jean-Luc at some point that he didn't have to act anymore. (He even had to go to therapy because of this.) The mistake this time was that he thought he could do this all over again. Just jump in and be JLP again. I totally get his approach. Problem is that nobody had the heart to sit down with him and tell him "Patrick, you can only do this if you re-visit who Jean-Luc was. You can't rely on your selective memory. You have to re-watch TNG, maybe not in its entirety but quite a few JLP centric episodes. And re-discover the guy. And THEN you can develop a future for him. It's the only way to remain faithful to who this man is. You can't just use your life as it is now. You are not JLP anymore, you are Patrick now. You need to find JLP again first." That's the critical context indeed. Especially for a character like Jean-Luc Picard, who is one of the few truly fleshed out TNG characters. It's no wonder that people ended up saying "this is just Patrick Stewart". Because it is. It's not Jean-Luc Picard. It's who Sir Patrick is now, in a 24th/25th century setting. It's like as if he sat down and wrote a fic with a self insert alter ego that lives in the future. (Trust me, I know THAT one, lol.)
And yeah. Matalas was too fanboy. He was too obsessed with his own story. In some way I almost understand him. Imagine someone hands you the keys to the franchise and says "make your fan fic canon". The temptation to go absolutely wild and put your own story before the characters would be incredibly strong. Of course, a good writer would not do so, but then, we're talking about Matalas here...
Yeah I know, McFadden defends Crusher at every possible opportunity. Same as Crusher's fangirl entourage on Twitter. They glorify every word she says and defend every single decision she makes. It's downright scary. But even THEY weren't happy with the pregnancy thing. Some of them, anyway. Others made comments such as "Picard deserved not to know, he was such a pompous jerk". Umm. Yeah. Right. If he had been an actual abusive jerk then yeah, not telling him would have been justified, but we're talking about the softest dork in the history of soft dorks here. Is he pompous? Yes. Is he arrogant? Yes. Is he annoying? Yes. But none of this justifies not telling him that he has a freaking kid.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on May 4, 2024 20:04:16 GMT
The worst thing is that Sir Patrick has said that the whole idea for the show that they approached him with is nothing like what we eventually got. So, they somehow managed to make it all even WORSE. (He said the only thing that remained from the pitch they gave him was the bit about Romulan refugees.) The basic idea was the same tho, of course - "he has changed and so have you". Which in itself is not a bad premise. It's logical. In my work I've also written a changed Jean-Luc when he is older. It wouldn't make sense for him to be the same guy he was at the end of Nemesis. That part I agree with. I can see where Sir Patrick was coming from. Back in the TNG days he was so intertwined with Jean-Luc at some point that he didn't have to act anymore. (He even had to go to therapy because of this.) The mistake this time was that he thought he could do this all over again. Just jump in and be JLP again. I totally get his approach. Problem is that nobody had the heart to sit down with him and tell him "Patrick, you can only do this if you re-visit who Jean-Luc was. You can't rely on your selective memory. You have to re-watch TNG, maybe not in its entirety but quite a few JLP centric episodes. And re-discover the guy. And THEN you can develop a future for him. It's the only way to remain faithful to who this man is. You can't just use your life as it is now. You are not JLP anymore, you are Patrick now. You need to find JLP again first." That's the critical context indeed. Especially for a character like Jean-Luc Picard, who is one of the few truly fleshed out TNG characters. It's no wonder that people ended up saying "this is just Patrick Stewart". Because it is. It's not Jean-Luc Picard. It's who Sir Patrick is now, in a 24th/25th century setting. It's like as if he sat down and wrote a fic with a self insert alter ego that lives in the future. (Trust me, I know THAT one, lol.) And yeah. Matalas was too fanboy. He was too obsessed with his own story. In some way I almost understand him. Imagine someone hands you the keys to the franchise and says "make your fan fic canon". The temptation to go absolutely wild and put your own story before the characters would be incredibly strong. Of course, a good writer would not do so, but then, we're talking about Matalas here... Yeah I know, McFadden defends Crusher at every possible opportunity. Same as Crusher's fangirl entourage on Twitter. They glorify every word she says and defend every single decision she makes. It's downright scary. But even THEY weren't happy with the pregnancy thing. Some of them, anyway. Others made comments such as "Picard deserved not to know, he was such a pompous jerk". Umm. Yeah. Right. If he had been an actual abusive jerk then yeah, not telling him would have been justified, but we're talking about the softest dork in the history of soft dorks here. Is he pompous? Yes. Is he arrogant? Yes. Is he annoying? Yes. But none of this justifies not telling him that he has a freaking kid. Give me the keys and I think I have good ideas for various things, and I might be able to write well, but I think you need talented, seasoned, strong-willed people in the writer's room that can say, "That's great." Or, "There are elements in this that are good, but, what if we did THIS with them instead of that." Or, "Yeah. I have to say this. I know your heart's in the right place, but that sucks, and here are all the reasons why." As for Crusher not telling Picard? Yes, he's annoying. He's arrogant. He can be irritating. Is he emotionally unavailable. Yeah, I think so. Is he a physical or psychologically abusive threat to the child? Absolutely not. So, yes, you absolutely tell him, let the chips fall where they may, and you both navigate the debris with the best interests of the child at heart. There's no justification whatsoever to deny him the choices that come with knowing. This was soap opera-grade psychotic behavior.
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