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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 28, 2024 14:43:40 GMT
Also, Stweart seemed to fit better with the "Bloodlines" kid. I've seen Speelers in other things and he's fine, but I think he just sorta sticks out here and makes the problems worse. The problem is that Speleers is AND looks 10 years older than the character he's playing and it shows. It's not immersive at all. Matalas literally said they hired him while actively KNOWING he didn't look the age of the character he was playing. And it's true - when the casting sheet for Jack Crusher leaked they were looking for an actor in his early 20s. They simply hoped the audience wouldn't really notice. They hired Speleers because "he looks like a young Patrick Stewart". I'll give them the slight resemblance, yes, but it's still lazy. I'm all for sticking with an actor you find but then you have to simply find a way to rewrite your plot and MAKE SOMEONE ELSE THE MOTHER. Jean-Luc would have had to father at the end of TNG or at around Generations for Speleer's age to work. Perfect opportunity to bring in Vash again. Or some technobabble from one of the Nexus kids he had. Whatever. Do whatever. Just don't go for the dumbest option, which is to stick with the 'Crusher as the mother' plan and hire an actor who looks ten years older than your plot's child is supposed to look like - oh, wait... And yeah, I liked the vibe between Jean-Luc and Jason Vigo. That was about a zillion times more realistic. I liked that they clashed because of how reckless Jason was and how Jean-Luc had to get past his weird expectations he'd have for a son of his (and maybe remember that he himself used to be reckless as hell back in the day). They did more character development for both characters in one not-even-mediocre TNG episode than they did in the entire third season of PIC. This isn't some nickel-and-dime, community playhouse, "choosing beggars" operation. Can't find someone who can act the part, be in his 20s, and bear at least a passing resemblance to Stewart. I think he's probably out there. But, don't you see? They COULDN'T rewrite it. It HAD to still be JLP and Beverly because the fanz have wanted forevah a resolution to one of the greatest will they/won't theys in television history. (eyeroll) It's all just terrible fanwank. And Jean-Luc and Jason do have some really nice moments, so I don't hate the episode even though Bok's whole plan around picking this kid out is absolutely absurd. |
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Post by MrPicard on Mar 28, 2024 17:22:16 GMT
I believe Matalas' excuse was that they did look at actors in their early 20s but none of them could hold his own against Sir Patrick because apparently there are no younger actors in all of Hollywood who can, so, they were kinda "forced" to hire an older actor. (You gotta love Matalas and his excuses. Not. It's utterly beyond me why so many fans want this train wreck of a writer in charge of Star Trek.) It's particularly absurd because have they ever heard of an actress named Dafne Keen who was WAY younger than early 20s and sure as hell could hold her own against Sir Patrick? I guess they haven't. It's absurdity galore. Hollywood is FULL of young actors in their early 20s. SURELY there had to be one SOMEWHERE. It's all a stupid excuse. They found Speleers, saw the resemblance and were like "whatever, we're gonna hire this guy, screw the early 20s thing, the fans will eat this up anyway because Picard and Crusher have a son now, MEMBERBERRIES, NOSTALGIA, THE SHIPPERS, they won't care". Some did care tho. I've seen several people complaining that Speleer's age is clearly visible and that this completely killed the immersion, so, we're not alone here.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 28, 2024 18:06:48 GMT
I believe Matalas' excuse was that they did look at actors in their early 20s but none of them could hold his own against Sir Patrick because apparently there are no younger actors in all of Hollywood who can, so, they were kinda "forced" to hire an older actor. (You gotta love Matalas and his excuses. Not. It's utterly beyond me why so many fans want this train wreck of a writer in charge of Star Trek.) It's particularly absurd because have they ever heard of an actress named Dafne Keen who was WAY younger than early 20s and sure as hell could hold her own against Sir Patrick? I guess they haven't. It's absurdity galore. Hollywood is FULL of young actors in their early 20s. SURELY there had to be one SOMEWHERE. It's all a stupid excuse. They found Speleers, saw the resemblance and were like "whatever, we're gonna hire this guy, screw the early 20s thing, the fans will eat this up anyway because Picard and Crusher have a son now, MEMBERBERRIES, NOSTALGIA, THE SHIPPERS, they won't care". Some did care tho. I've seen several people complaining that Speleer's age is clearly visible and that this completely killed the immersion, so, we're not alone here. Matalas makes all of this so much worse for me because all of his, "We meant to do that." in response to his bad decisions when the explanations are dumber than the decisions themselves. It's like he never planned a response because he never thought that anyone would see anything off or call it out. He was just so in his own head from first frame to last on this thing. And he never had a decent explanation for any of it because he never thought he'd need one. After all, he cultivated this memberberry orchard, and it'd be so delicious no one would care. Matalas built a plastic kiddie pool, tried to convince people it was Olympic-size, and, even if they did notice it wasn't, they won't care because the seahorses he painted on were just so pretty. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Mar 28, 2024 21:52:08 GMT
Matalas is suddenly God. He is the 5th light. Praise be to Matalas. Matalas is our lord and savior. Matalas died on a cross for our fanwanking. Matalas walks on plasma coolant. Matalas is the chosen one.
Matalas is the seventh son of a seventh son. Matalas turns sh!+ into wine. Matalas can take my wife. Matalas can take my daughters too. Matalas deserves our devotion. I sacrifice my life for Matalas. Matalas blesses us with his grace and genius .
God i swear, over at Trek BBS you'd think they made a temple to worship him.
F*K YOU MATALAS!
(God, I rather have Brannon Braga back.)
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 29, 2024 3:36:55 GMT
Matalas is suddenly God. He is the 5th light. Praise be to Matalas. Matalas is our lord and savior. Matalas died on a cross for our fanwanking. Matalas walks on plasma coolant. Matalas is the chosen one. Matalas is the seventh son of a seventh son. Matalas turns sh!+ into wine. Matalas can take my wife. Matalas can take my daughters too. Matalas deserves our devotion. I sacrifice my life for Matalas. Matalas blesses us with his grace and genius . God i swear, over at Trek BBS you'd think they made a temple to worship him. F*K YOU MATALAS! (God, I rather have Brannon Braga back.) Braga just ended up burned out, he wasn't a talentless hack. |
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Post by BeastBoy on Mar 29, 2024 3:53:09 GMT
Why Star Trek Picard is not created in 1980s style?
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 29, 2024 4:03:52 GMT
Because audiences in 2024 like angst and misery.
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Post by BeastBoy on Mar 29, 2024 4:08:10 GMT
Because audiences in 2024 like angst and misery. They are want to see non-stop pew-pew and special effects? |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 29, 2024 4:21:36 GMT
That, and they don't seem to be much into optimism these days. I can't entirely say I blame them because the last few decades have done a lot to slowly murder any sense of optimism and that things will get better.
Even myself, while I want my Star Trek optimistic for the escapism, I am absolutrly convinced that we'll never get near Roddenberry's vision.
Not even close.
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Post by BeastBoy on Mar 29, 2024 4:38:29 GMT
How much Star Trek have you watched?
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Post by nombrecomun on Mar 29, 2024 4:53:58 GMT
That, and they don't seem to be much into optimism these days. I can't entirely say I blame them because the last few decades have done a lot to slowly murder any sense of optimism and that things will get better. Even myself, while I want my Star Trek optimistic for the escapism, I am absolutrly convinced that we'll never get near Roddenberry's vision. Not even close. I agree. The issue then becomes if modern ST isn't going to be/can't be optimistic like GR's vision then what is it? And I think we see the result. It ain't Trek. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 29, 2024 14:41:23 GMT
How much Star Trek have you watched? Literally everything except for Lower Decks. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 29, 2024 14:47:24 GMT
That, and they don't seem to be much into optimism these days. I can't entirely say I blame them because the last few decades have done a lot to slowly murder any sense of optimism and that things will get better. Even myself, while I want my Star Trek optimistic for the escapism, I am absolutrly convinced that we'll never get near Roddenberry's vision. Not even close. I agree. The issue then becomes if modern ST isn't going to be/can't be optimistic like GR's vision then what is it? And I think we see the result. It ain't Trek. It's closer to Star Wars. It's closer to you general, generic sci-fi that exists to just be a look at "The Future." SG-1, which basically spent 15 years and two shows depicting pretty much every major power in the galaxy either completely ambivalent about humans, or wanting them dead, is worlds more fun and optimistic than most of modern Trek. Though, it's not all bad since I'm generally pretty satisfied with SNW. |
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Post by MrPicard on Mar 30, 2024 13:58:05 GMT
I believe Matalas' excuse was that they did look at actors in their early 20s but none of them could hold his own against Sir Patrick because apparently there are no younger actors in all of Hollywood who can, so, they were kinda "forced" to hire an older actor. (You gotta love Matalas and his excuses. Not. It's utterly beyond me why so many fans want this train wreck of a writer in charge of Star Trek.) It's particularly absurd because have they ever heard of an actress named Dafne Keen who was WAY younger than early 20s and sure as hell could hold her own against Sir Patrick? I guess they haven't. It's absurdity galore. Hollywood is FULL of young actors in their early 20s. SURELY there had to be one SOMEWHERE. It's all a stupid excuse. They found Speleers, saw the resemblance and were like "whatever, we're gonna hire this guy, screw the early 20s thing, the fans will eat this up anyway because Picard and Crusher have a son now, MEMBERBERRIES, NOSTALGIA, THE SHIPPERS, they won't care". Some did care tho. I've seen several people complaining that Speleer's age is clearly visible and that this completely killed the immersion, so, we're not alone here. Matalas makes all of this so much worse for me because all of his, "We meant to do that." in response to his bad decisions when the explanations are dumber than the decisions themselves. It's like he never planned a response because he never thought that anyone would see anything off or call it out. He was just so in his own head from first frame to last on this thing. And he never had a decent explanation for any of it because he never thought he'd need one. After all, he cultivated this memberberry orchard, and it'd be so delicious no one would care. Matalas built a plastic kiddie pool, tried to convince people it was Olympic-size, and, even if they did notice it wasn't, they won't care because the seahorses he painted on were just so pretty. Yup, this. He truly thought nobody would notice the flaws in his brilliant plot and people would be completely swept away because "oh my God the TNG crew is back". And this is why I loathe his work so much. He has the attitude of a 15 year old fic writer who thinks his badfic is the best fic ever written and anyone who doesn't agree is being gaslighted with "you're just not seeing it, see, we did this and that because [insert absurd/nonsensical reasoning]". I've come across fic writers like him many, many times. It's a tiring attitude to have, that's for sure.
He was hell-bent on making that third season. On pushing his ideas through. It didn't matter that most of them made no sense. People just couldn't see the brilliance. And well, his attitude towards criticism on Twitter said it all - whenever someone called something out his answer would either be condescending with a "you just don't get it" vibe or aggressive like "we just didn't have the budget/time/whatever!!!". Like, dude. Just say "we knew it didn't make any sense but we did it anyway because memberberries and milking TNG one last time were more important than a coherent plot".
I truly, truly hope that someone will one day make a documentary about PIC like the one Shatner made about the first two TNG seasons. Where we get to hear the true story of how it all happened. Where everyone can speak freely and we don't get the usual "it was an honor to work with everybody" promotion drivel. I have a hunch that a lot of people will have a lot of not so nice things to say. Especially the actresses and actors whose characters were introduced with great noise in the first season and then were one by one dumped and/or shoved aside to make room for the TNG crew. AND Michael Chabon. I know the official reasoning was that he left because he was making his own show but nothing has happened there so far, and I somehow have a feeling that he walked away from the whole thing because they didn't listen to his ideas in the first season. I mean he took the time to answer all the plot questions the fans had after the first season. If you have to have your show's writer on Instagram explaining things that made no sense it doesn't speak highly of your show or your regard for your writer. (I do think Chabon was a mistake, he's a novel writer, not a television writer, of course his plot made sense to him in his head and in a book it probably WOULD have made sense because there's so much more time to explain things. So don't get me wrong, I don't think he was a good idea to hire but still, he DID add his own spin to things and I can appreciate THAT one, at least. But yeah the fact that he had to explain the plot holes on Instagram afterwards REALLY didn't make it all look very good, and I'm not sure he was pleased about this either.)
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Post by Garak Nephew on Mar 30, 2024 15:04:37 GMT
How much Star Trek have you watched? I have watched all the series from start to finish at least twice (except Star Trek: Enterprise, only once) and DS9 multiple times. ST:E is my least favorite of the franchise; but if I were to split Star Trek: Picard, its 3rd season would be at the bottom of them all. |
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Post by BeastBoy on Mar 30, 2024 15:14:41 GMT
How much Star Trek have you watched? I have watched all the series from start to finish at least twice (except Star Trek: Enterprise, only once) and DS9 multiple times. ST:E is my least favorite of the franchise; but if I were to split Star Trek: Picard, its 3rd season would be at the bottom of them all. How much time it took? |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Mar 30, 2024 15:31:29 GMT
I have watched all the series from start to finish at least twice (except Star Trek: Enterprise, only once) and DS9 multiple times. ST:E is my least favorite of the franchise; but if I were to split Star Trek: Picard, its 3rd season would be at the bottom of them all. How much time it took? I don't know, a lot. Never timed it. It is not a binge watching thing, when I have time I watch Trek that's it. But you can imagine the picture and it is daunting when you think about it: 700+ episodes, about 45 min per episodes, how much is that? Help me out because math is not my thing. About 600 hours? |
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Post by BeastBoy on Mar 30, 2024 15:34:50 GMT
I don't know, a lot. Never timed it. It is not a binge watching thing, when I have time I watch Trek that's it. But you can imagine the picture and it is daunting when you think about it: 700+ episodes, about 45 min per episodes, how much is that? Help me out because math is not my thing. About 600 hours? From google: Every series and movie combined totals to 651 hours and 48 minutes, meaning it will take over 27 days to watch them all uninterrupted. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Mar 30, 2024 17:51:33 GMT
I don't know, a lot. Never timed it. It is not a binge watching thing, when I have time I watch Trek that's it. But you can imagine the picture and it is daunting when you think about it: 700+ episodes, about 45 min per episodes, how much is that? Help me out because math is not my thing. About 600 hours? From google: Every series and movie combined totals to 651 hours and 48 minutes, meaning it will take over 27 days to watch them all uninterrupted. I wouldn't bother trying to get all caught up. I can understand wanting to 'catch up' so to speak if the franchise is new. Some of us watched this stuff as it aired meaning we've had decades of watching it, rewatching it, letting it sit for a couple of years in our brains, then watching it again discovering new perspectives, pros and cons, and so on. Missing nowadays is talking about it with your friends....because some of us watched with our friends sitting right besides us on the coach. They offered their opinions, insights, whatever. It's a whole experience missing today. Best we have are these online boards but it's not the same. There's a whole experience of watching any episode of anything that's quite different today. So I would suggest not to torture yourself by doing something like that. Pick any series and watch it. Take a break. Pick another. If after a couple of eps a series doesn't seem to be of your liking then skip it, go to something else, and come back to it at a later date bearing in mind some of these series took years to get cooking(TNG and DS9 in particular). |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 30, 2024 18:14:00 GMT
Matalas makes all of this so much worse for me because all of his, "We meant to do that." in response to his bad decisions when the explanations are dumber than the decisions themselves. It's like he never planned a response because he never thought that anyone would see anything off or call it out. He was just so in his own head from first frame to last on this thing. And he never had a decent explanation for any of it because he never thought he'd need one. After all, he cultivated this memberberry orchard, and it'd be so delicious no one would care. Matalas built a plastic kiddie pool, tried to convince people it was Olympic-size, and, even if they did notice it wasn't, they won't care because the seahorses he painted on were just so pretty. Yup, this. He truly thought nobody would notice the flaws in his brilliant plot and people would be completely swept away because "oh my God the TNG crew is back". And this is why I loathe his work so much. He has the attitude of a 15 year old fic writer who thinks his badfic is the best fic ever written and anyone who doesn't agree is being gaslighted with "you're just not seeing it, see, we did this and that because [insert absurd/nonsensical reasoning]". I've come across fic writers like him many, many times. It's a tiring attitude to have, that's for sure. He was hell-bent on making that third season. On pushing his ideas through. It didn't matter that most of them made no sense. People just couldn't see the brilliance. And well, his attitude towards criticism on Twitter said it all - whenever someone called something out his answer would either be condescending with a "you just don't get it" vibe or aggressive like "we just didn't have the budget/time/whatever!!!". Like, dude. Just say "we knew it didn't make any sense but we did it anyway because memberberries and milking TNG one last time were more important than a coherent plot".
I truly, truly hope that someone will one day make a documentary about PIC like the one Shatner made about the first two TNG seasons. Where we get to hear the true story of how it all happened. Where everyone can speak freely and we don't get the usual "it was an honor to work with everybody" promotion drivel. I have a hunch that a lot of people will have a lot of not so nice things to say. Especially the actresses and actors whose characters were introduced with great noise in the first season and then were one by one dumped and/or shoved aside to make room for the TNG crew. AND Michael Chabon. I know the official reasoning was that he left because he was making his own show but nothing has happened there so far, and I somehow have a feeling that he walked away from the whole thing because they didn't listen to his ideas in the first season. I mean he took the time to answer all the plot questions the fans had after the first season. If you have to have your show's writer on Instagram explaining things that made no sense it doesn't speak highly of your show or your regard for your writer. (I do think Chabon was a mistake, he's a novel writer, not a television writer, of course his plot made sense to him in his head and in a book it probably WOULD have made sense because there's so much more time to explain things. So don't get me wrong, I don't think he was a good idea to hire but still, he DID add his own spin to things and I can appreciate THAT one, at least. But yeah the fact that he had to explain the plot holes on Instagram afterwards REALLY didn't make it all look very good, and I'm not sure he was pleased about this either.)
In terms of the part of your comment that I bolded. I honestly probably would have a shred of respect for him and what he created if he just owned it like this. If he just said, "Yeah, it's got plot holes you could drive a galaxy-class ship through, but, here's my thing: I had these scenes in my head like snippets in a dream, I had these moments in my head that I wanted to see as a fan and I think most other fans wanted to see. How we got to those moments to me mattered less than actually bringing them to life." Then? Yeah. I know that he knows what it is. He doesn't care that anyone else has a problem with it because all that mattered was making his dream fragments canon. He did that. Good for him, I guess. He got his dream job and wanted to make the mark he wanted to make in what might be his only chance to make it, and certainly his only one with the full TNG crew. It's all so much worse because he's just so defensive, and he's so defensive because he truly thought it was good. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Apr 1, 2024 16:59:38 GMT
Because audiences in 2024 like angst and misery. And this is why I like Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. It may be horribly produced, but its not angst and misery or dark. Its kinda fun, and I do like the Aspect of dealing with Televangelists (Sybok) and confronting his "God". Its got way more thought in it than anything NU-Trek has put out. And yes, I'm conceding that its not a very high bar to start with. This is probably why I gravitate to flops like Star trek V and Insurrection. To e they are a lot "Brighter" and fun than the grimness of say Star Trek First Contact....and Nemesis, nobody likes Nemesis, its both badly made and dark. |
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Post by BeastBoy on Apr 2, 2024 2:25:50 GMT
Hey guys, when all modern movies and tv-series are turn in 1980s style as Knight Rider, Airwolf, The A-Team, Star Trek TNG?
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Post by MrPicard on Apr 2, 2024 13:47:42 GMT
Yup, this. He truly thought nobody would notice the flaws in his brilliant plot and people would be completely swept away because "oh my God the TNG crew is back". And this is why I loathe his work so much. He has the attitude of a 15 year old fic writer who thinks his badfic is the best fic ever written and anyone who doesn't agree is being gaslighted with "you're just not seeing it, see, we did this and that because [insert absurd/nonsensical reasoning]". I've come across fic writers like him many, many times. It's a tiring attitude to have, that's for sure. He was hell-bent on making that third season. On pushing his ideas through. It didn't matter that most of them made no sense. People just couldn't see the brilliance. And well, his attitude towards criticism on Twitter said it all - whenever someone called something out his answer would either be condescending with a "you just don't get it" vibe or aggressive like "we just didn't have the budget/time/whatever!!!". Like, dude. Just say "we knew it didn't make any sense but we did it anyway because memberberries and milking TNG one last time were more important than a coherent plot".
I truly, truly hope that someone will one day make a documentary about PIC like the one Shatner made about the first two TNG seasons. Where we get to hear the true story of how it all happened. Where everyone can speak freely and we don't get the usual "it was an honor to work with everybody" promotion drivel. I have a hunch that a lot of people will have a lot of not so nice things to say. Especially the actresses and actors whose characters were introduced with great noise in the first season and then were one by one dumped and/or shoved aside to make room for the TNG crew. AND Michael Chabon. I know the official reasoning was that he left because he was making his own show but nothing has happened there so far, and I somehow have a feeling that he walked away from the whole thing because they didn't listen to his ideas in the first season. I mean he took the time to answer all the plot questions the fans had after the first season. If you have to have your show's writer on Instagram explaining things that made no sense it doesn't speak highly of your show or your regard for your writer. (I do think Chabon was a mistake, he's a novel writer, not a television writer, of course his plot made sense to him in his head and in a book it probably WOULD have made sense because there's so much more time to explain things. So don't get me wrong, I don't think he was a good idea to hire but still, he DID add his own spin to things and I can appreciate THAT one, at least. But yeah the fact that he had to explain the plot holes on Instagram afterwards REALLY didn't make it all look very good, and I'm not sure he was pleased about this either.)
In terms of the part of your comment that I bolded. I honestly probably would have a shred of respect for him and what he created if he just owned it like this. If he just said, "Yeah, it's got plot holes you could drive a galaxy-class ship through, but, here's my thing: I had these scenes in my head like snippets in a dream, I had these moments in my head that I wanted to see as a fan and I think most other fans wanted to see. How we got to those moments to me mattered less than actually bringing them to life." Then? Yeah. I know that he knows what it is. He doesn't care that anyone else has a problem with it because all that mattered was making his dream fragments canon. He did that. Good for him, I guess. He got his dream job and wanted to make the mark he wanted to make in what might be his only chance to make it, and certainly his only one with the full TNG crew. It's all so much worse because he's just so defensive, and he's so defensive because he truly thought it was good. Yes, I agree. He did (and still does) go on and on about how close to his heart TNG is and how much he wanted to make season 3. I can understand that, too. If someone had given me the tools to fix the mess of PIC's first two seasons and had said "do it with the TNG crew", I probably would have jumped at it, too. But I at least would have tried to tell a story that is coherent with what we saw on TNG, and not a story that, no matter what, has to follow what's in my head regardless of what was previously established on either PIC or TNG and regardless of whether it makes sense or not. When you're given the chance to tell a story you make sure that your story fits to the characters, and not the other way around.
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Post by RobinBland on Apr 11, 2024 15:19:53 GMT
Matalas is suddenly God. He is the 5th light. Praise be to Matalas. Matalas is our lord and savior. Matalas died on a cross for our fanwanking. Matalas walks on plasma coolant. Matalas is the chosen one. Matalas is the seventh son of a seventh son. Matalas turns sh!+ into wine. Matalas can take my wife. Matalas can take my daughters too. Matalas deserves our devotion. I sacrifice my life for Matalas. Matalas blesses us with his grace and genius . God i swear, over at Trek BBS you'd think they made a temple to worship him. F*K YOU MATALAS! (God, I rather have Brannon Braga back.) Braga just ended up burned out, he wasn't a talentless hack. I was gonna say the same thing. On his good days, Braga wrote some great scripts. When he was held to account as to story logic (as when teamed with Moore or overseen by Piller or even Berman), he wrote some great scripts. When Berman overworked him, he didn't so much. On Chabon: IIRC, I think it was he who was a large ingredient in helping to lure Sir Patrick back. His one season of Picard was flawed, but I'd take it a thousand times over seasons 2 and 3. Especially 3. I do find myself wondering how the show would've played out if he'd been round for all three seasons. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 11, 2024 19:22:46 GMT
Braga just ended up burned out, he wasn't a talentless hack. I was gonna say the same thing. On his good days, Braga wrote some great scripts. When he was held to account as to story logic (as when teamed with Moore or overseen by Piller or even Berman), he wrote some great scripts. When Berman overworked him, he didn't so much. On Chabon: IIRC, I think it was he who was a large ingredient in helping to lure Sir Patrick back. His one season of Picard was flawed, but I'd take it a thousand times over seasons 2 and 3. Especially 3. I do find myself wondering how the show would've played out if he'd been round for all three seasons. I always try to give credit for honest effort, even if I don't love the outcome. As you say, S1 is flawed in any number of ways, but he tried for something thoughtful. He tried to find the emotional space that the Picard that existed in Nemesis would have now, and I think he found it in a lot of ways. But the good of that was dinged hard in S2 and blown up in S3 in favor some 8th grader's daydream. |
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Post by RobinBland on Apr 13, 2024 23:27:15 GMT
I was gonna say the same thing. On his good days, Braga wrote some great scripts. When he was held to account as to story logic (as when teamed with Moore or overseen by Piller or even Berman), he wrote some great scripts. When Berman overworked him, he didn't so much. On Chabon: IIRC, I think it was he who was a large ingredient in helping to lure Sir Patrick back. His one season of Picard was flawed, but I'd take it a thousand times over seasons 2 and 3. Especially 3. I do find myself wondering how the show would've played out if he'd been round for all three seasons. I always try to give credit for honest effort, even if I don't love the outcome. As you say, S1 is flawed in any number of ways, but he tried for something thoughtful. He tried to find the emotional space that the Picard that existed in Nemesis would have now, and I think he found it in a lot of ways. But the good of that was dinged hard in S2 and blown up in S3 in favor some 8th grader's daydream. Agreed 100%. |
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Post by MrPicard on Apr 15, 2024 9:36:00 GMT
I agree that Chabon at least tried and that season 1 is the only really watchable season of PIC. I do think season 1 would have worked better if it had had more episodes to explore things tho, especially the ones that explain how Jean-Luc ended up in the situation that he was in. I know there were flashbacks, but I'm very much willing to bet that Chabon, being a novel writer, had it all written down in excrutiating detail and not just as mini flashbacks. It was a bold move to hire a novel writer for the first season of a television series about one of the most beloved Trek characters.
I would even cut Goldsman SOME slack for the second season, it was bad, yes, but it also at least tried to deliver something from a new direction even if it retconned the hell out of TNG.
But then season 3 did everything it could to wreck it all. It's like as if someone in charge told Matalas "do everything you can to erase those first two seasons... we're gonna do our part, we're gonna kick out most of the cast".
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 15, 2024 16:56:17 GMT
I agree that Chabon at least tried and that season 1 is the only really watchable season of PIC. I do think season 1 would have worked better if it had had more episodes to explore things tho, especially the ones that explain how Jean-Luc ended up in the situation that he was in. I know there were flashbacks, but I'm very much willing to bet that Chabon, being a novel writer, had it all written down in excrutiating detail and not just as mini flashbacks. It was a bold move to hire a novel writer for the first season of a television series about one of the most beloved Trek characters. I would even cut Goldsman SOME slack for the second season, it was bad, yes, but it also at least tried to deliver something from a new direction even if it retconned the hell out of TNG. But then season 3 did everything it could to wreck it all. It's like as if someone in charge told Matalas "do everything you can to erase those first two seasons... we're gonna do our part, we're gonna kick out most of the cast". And Matalas was largely successful. The first two seasons are narratively irrelevant. |
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Post by MrPicard on Apr 16, 2024 9:46:15 GMT
Indeed. A lot of those who were extremely vocal about hating the first two seasons were pandered to with the third season (just look at how Matalas sucked up to people like Robert Meyer Burnett, who had hated on every single thing the first two seasons did) - and they got what they always wanted: TNG 2.0 Nostalgia Bait and Matalas made it as easy as he possibly could for them to ignore the first two seasons because he undid pretty much everything major that they established. No wonder they were all over it.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 16, 2024 14:22:10 GMT
Indeed. A lot of those who were extremely vocal about hating the first two seasons were pandered to with the third season (just look at how Matalas sucked up to people like Robert Meyer Burnett, who had hated on every single thing the first two seasons did) - and they got what they always wanted: TNG 2.0 Nostalgia Bait and Matalas made it as easy as he possibly could for them to ignore the first two seasons because he undid pretty much everything major that they established. No wonder they were all over it. Which just adds a little more tawdry to the whole affair. Not only is the man pandering on a level I've rarely seen in professional film and television. I mean, who gets 150M, or whatever the budget was to do nothing spoon feed fans like this? There's examples offanservice elsewhere, sure, but in most of those cases the producer still has something of his own to say. Matalas doesn't. And the cherry on top is that the man is so freaking needy of attention and adulation for what he's done. |
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I am so sorry...