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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 22, 2023 17:47:05 GMT
Here.
Please don't be as cringe as I fear.
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Post by ashleytinger on Jul 22, 2023 23:30:53 GMT
It dropped early!
And it's a lot of fun so far!
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Post by ashleytinger on Jul 23, 2023 0:07:37 GMT
Ok, I would have liked a little more balance between the SNW crew and the LD crew throughout, but it was a fun romp, had some heart to go with the comedy, and the LD crew both taught and learned something from and with the SNW crew.
To be honest, this reminded me of the lighter tone from Voyage Home and it worked.
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Post by Tupperfan on Jul 23, 2023 3:21:07 GMT
It dropped early! And it's a lot of fun so far! Well, it did drop extremely early! Learned about it here, so thanks Ashley!
The early release might be related to a Comic-Con event? I don't know.
I'm not a fan of Lower Decks, and I watched the full first season in order to forge that opinion. So, that episode should have annoyed me on many levels: the tone clearly varies enough to make it weird and it shouldn't work at all.
But it did work. Live-action Trek often made weird and funny successful and in that case it was exactly that (when taken lightly and with a grain of salt). Of course, one must not think too hard on the deeper implications of the episode, and how it legitimizes the USS Cerritos' adventures as having any roots in the Trek universe reality, but eh, it was entertaining. By this point, I guess that's all I can be asking from Star Trek.
P.S. (***SPOILERS***): Totally called the animated Enterprise in the credits. Wish we could have seen a "live-action" Cerritos, though (even if I don't think it's a good-looking ship).
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 23, 2023 4:33:01 GMT
Yes, because of SDCC.
Good moments, okay overall and better than I feared it would be.
But, having not watched LD in years I was reminded how utterly insufferable I find Mariner.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 23, 2023 13:46:33 GMT
What a fun episode! The animated introduction credits is beautiful! I am fringe here because I love LD, but they did a great job on this crossover. Very trippy. They keep hinting at a break from Prime.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 23, 2023 13:49:14 GMT
Also, I didn't know about this until I came here. Why would P+ drop 2 episodes on a week?
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Post by ashleytinger on Jul 23, 2023 13:55:40 GMT
Also, I didn't know about this until I came here. Why would P+ drop 2 episodes on a week? They previewed it for SDCC so they released it same day and the bumped up when the rest of the episodes are airing. P+ has an actual streaming chart hit with SNW and they're trying to capitalize on it. |
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Post by scenario on Jul 24, 2023 2:42:39 GMT
I liked it. I generally don't like ST humor episodes but this one was okay. Its definitely one where the parts were better then the whole. I liked quite a few little moments. If they want to do this again, make it an extra episode. The 11th episode of the season that they show between seasons.
If LD wasn't so frantic, I might learn to enjoy it.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 24, 2023 17:06:15 GMT
Yes, because of SDCC. Good moments, okay overall and better than I feared it would be. But, having not watched LD in years I was reminded how utterly insufferable I find Mariner. I'm debating whether I even want to watch it, I hate LD so bad. |
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Post by scenario on Jul 24, 2023 17:25:07 GMT
Yes, because of SDCC. Good moments, okay overall and better than I feared it would be. But, having not watched LD in years I was reminded how utterly insufferable I find Mariner. I'm debating whether I even want to watch it, I hate LD so bad. The characters from LD are true to form but the SNW characters treat them like naughty children for the most part. Most of it is live action. I mildly liked it. |
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Post by scenario on Jul 24, 2023 17:37:35 GMT
The one thing I liked/disliked about LD in the half season I watched is they tended to bring up interesting but half formed ideas and drop them 5 seconds later.
spoiler.
The subplot with Spock was one of these. Spock has recently started a relationship of some sort with Chapel. He is abandoning his Vulcan roots to an extent. The idea that Spock might have had a brief flirtation with openly exploring his human half is interesting. When he realizes that he is alienating the people around him, especially Chapel he abandons the attempt. Spock at this point is like a teenager figuring out who he is. I actually enjoyed this aspect of this episode because its an extension of earlier ones. However, I don't want it to continue. It fit in this episode and would be a distraction in others.
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Post by Yorick on Jul 24, 2023 19:23:25 GMT
Yes, because of SDCC. Good moments, okay overall and better than I feared it would be. But, having not watched LD in years I was reminded how utterly insufferable I find Mariner. I'm debating whether I even want to watch it, I hate LD so bad. Yes, I’m barely hanging on as a viewer trying to make it all work in my head. This might fling me into the void, never to return. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jul 24, 2023 19:42:25 GMT
I found myself admiring how clever this episode is, all the way through. The shifts of tone and style, the meshing together of two very different approaches to make something whole. You have to admire the sheer effort that went into it - that's all on show and it's laudable for that alone.The SNW cast twinkle when they get to do a comedy episode, and it all stays within a continuum of believability, somehow. Lower Decks is a very different kind of comedy, one that's not to my taste, but I was interested to see how putting the two shows together would work.
Boimler, as manifested in 3D, is rather less annoying than his 2D animated counterpart, even if it's difficult to believe he'd ever have made it into a professional organisation like Starfleet. Props to Jack Quaid for maintaining the consistency of the character, while also giving us a slightly dialled down version who worked pretty well in live action.
Unfortunately (for me), I can't say the same about Mariner (no disrespect to Tawny Newsome who gives us all the broadsides that are there in the script). Very soon after she made her entrance, I found myself bounced out of my (admittedly mild) immersion in the story by her whole persona. I just find that quickfire gag-a-second approach to scriptwriting distracting, forced and grating. (An entirely subjective response, I'll readily admit.)
That's a shame, because there were certain scenes and juxtapositions of character that really worked, such as Chapel and Boimler in the turbolift. Good stuff, and the comedy, even if writ larger and wider than the excellent Charades (Spock's smile) worked, pretty much.
I tried to keep an open mind. I did my best. By the end however, I couldn't wait for Mariner to get off the 1701. Pike is the most patient captain in the 23rd century.
If push came to shove, I'd say it's an experiment that worked, but I really hope it's not one they feel compelled to repeat. And before you ask, I'm really looking forward to the musical episode.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 25, 2023 0:08:50 GMT
I'm debating whether I even want to watch it, I hate LD so bad. The characters from LD are true to form but the SNW characters treat them like naughty children for the most part. Most of it is live action. I mildly liked it. I would've liked it better had Mariner not showed up. Nothing against Tawny Newsome (who was great in Netflix's "Dr. Strangelove" wannabe "Space Force") but her character always seems to work my last nerve, so help me. I physically can't stand Mariner; it's like my immune system just rejects the whole gestalt of "Lower Decks". And I hate to be the continuity nerd, but SNW is the series that managed to remember Kirk & Pike met only "when (Pike) was promoted to fleet Captain", yet now they discover time portals like rusty, popped hubcaps along a busy freeway. Um...am I the ONLY one who remembers that "The Naked Time" is the first time that Starfleet officially 'discovered' time travel, and that "City on the Edge of Forever" was the franchise's first bona fide time portal? I hate to be the stickler for continuity, but SNW went there first when they scrambled to make sure that Pike & Kirk's first meeting was done 'correctly.' This episode did some interesting experiments shuttling back and forth between live-action and animation, but it's a shame that it had to be with THIS animated series, and not the good one that ParamountPlus strangled in the crib. Sorry to be so negative & bitter, but I really really really can't stand LD. |
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Post by scenario on Jul 25, 2023 0:41:24 GMT
The characters from LD are true to form but the SNW characters treat them like naughty children for the most part. Most of it is live action. I mildly liked it. I would've liked it better had Mariner not showed up. Nothing against Tawny Newsome (who was great in Netflix's "Dr. Strangelove" wannabe "Space Force") but her character always seems to work my last nerve, so help me. I physically can't stand Mariner; it's like my immune system just rejects the whole gestalt of "Lower Decks". And I hate to be the continuity nerd, but SNW is the series that managed to remember Kirk & Pike met only "when (Pike) was promoted to fleet Captain", yet now they discover time portals like rusty, popped hubcaps along a busy freeway. Um...am I the ONLY one who remembers that "The Naked Time" is the first time that Starfleet officially 'discovered' time travel, and that "City on the Edge of Forever" was the franchise's first bona fide time portal? I hate to be the stickler for continuity, but SNW went there first when they scrambled to make sure that Pike & Kirk's first meeting was done 'correctly.' This episode did some interesting experiments shuttling back and forth between live-action and animation, but it's a shame that it had to be with THIS animated series, and not the good one that ParamountPlus strangled in the crib. Sorry to be so negative & bitter, but I really really really can't stand LD. The reviews here are mixed. You're not obligated to like it. If you took 1000 ST fan and asked for a list of their top 25 episodes. None would match and some well loved episodes would be hated by other fans. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 25, 2023 1:39:13 GMT
The characters from LD are true to form but the SNW characters treat them like naughty children for the most part. Most of it is live action. I mildly liked it. I would've liked it better had Mariner not showed up. Nothing against Tawny Newsome (who was great in Netflix's "Dr. Strangelove" wannabe "Space Force") but her character always seems to work my last nerve, so help me. I physically can't stand Mariner; it's like my immune system just rejects the whole gestalt of "Lower Decks". And I hate to be the continuity nerd, but SNW is the series that managed to remember Kirk & Pike met only "when (Pike) was promoted to fleet Captain", yet now they discover time portals like rusty, popped hubcaps along a busy freeway. Um...am I the ONLY one who remembers that "The Naked Time" is the first time that Starfleet officially 'discovered' time travel, and that "City on the Edge of Forever" was the franchise's first bona fide time portal? I hate to be the stickler for continuity, but SNW went there first when they scrambled to make sure that Pike & Kirk's first meeting was done 'correctly.' This episode did some interesting experiments shuttling back and forth between live-action and animation, but it's a shame that it had to be with THIS animated series, and not the good one that ParamountPlus strangled in the crib. Sorry to be so negative & bitter, but I really really really can't stand LD. I truly hate Mariner. She's just smarmy and the speed-talking feels like she's trying to use that in place of intelligence. Boimler was actually fine and no real complaints, but Mariner is terrible. Also not meant to be a trash on Newsome because she's clearly doing well what she's been asked to do. But Mariner need to just be shaken until she shuts up. As for all the time travel stuff? "Tomorrow..."pretty much proves to me that this is a new timeline, and they're just gonna do their own thing, whatever that is. |
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Post by scenario on Jul 25, 2023 2:45:25 GMT
I would've liked it better had Mariner not showed up. Nothing against Tawny Newsome (who was great in Netflix's "Dr. Strangelove" wannabe "Space Force") but her character always seems to work my last nerve, so help me. I physically can't stand Mariner; it's like my immune system just rejects the whole gestalt of "Lower Decks". And I hate to be the continuity nerd, but SNW is the series that managed to remember Kirk & Pike met only "when (Pike) was promoted to fleet Captain", yet now they discover time portals like rusty, popped hubcaps along a busy freeway. Um...am I the ONLY one who remembers that "The Naked Time" is the first time that Starfleet officially 'discovered' time travel, and that "City on the Edge of Forever" was the franchise's first bona fide time portal? I hate to be the stickler for continuity, but SNW went there first when they scrambled to make sure that Pike & Kirk's first meeting was done 'correctly.' This episode did some interesting experiments shuttling back and forth between live-action and animation, but it's a shame that it had to be with THIS animated series, and not the good one that ParamountPlus strangled in the crib. Sorry to be so negative & bitter, but I really really really can't stand LD. I truly hate Mariner. She's just smarmy and the speed-talking feels like she's trying to use that in place of intelligence. Boimler was actually fine and no real complaints, but Mariner is terrible. Also not meant to be a trash on Newsome because she's clearly doing well what she's been asked to do. But Mariner need to just be shaken until she shuts up. As for all the time travel stuff? "Tomorrow..."pretty much proves to me that this is a new timeline, and they're just gonna do their own thing, whatever that is. I've got my head cannon. The time police stops big changes but there are so many time travelers they can't stop them all. Time cop HQ is out of the timeline and has tens of thousands of people living there. Time cop wakes up and the Galaxy's all Borg. They use their super science machine and find out that someone killed Picard as a baby or his mom or whatever. So they go back and fix it. A few days later when they go to work, their boss pulls them over. They've been erased from history. It would cost too much and be too difficult to fix it. The change is too minor. They check their parents Facepad and sure enough there they are with a different kid with your name. They join the Time police too and there's someone else with your name and most of your memories but its not you. Sometimes your time sibling is a different gender. Time siblings are closer to you than actual siblings but not exact. TOS Kirk and SNW Kirk are both Kirk. They are close enough alike that there are no major changes in the timeline so the time police don't care. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 25, 2023 3:03:16 GMT
I truly hate Mariner. She's just smarmy and the speed-talking feels like she's trying to use that in place of intelligence. Boimler was actually fine and no real complaints, but Mariner is terrible. Also not meant to be a trash on Newsome because she's clearly doing well what she's been asked to do. But Mariner need to just be shaken until she shuts up. As for all the time travel stuff? "Tomorrow..."pretty much proves to me that this is a new timeline, and they're just gonna do their own thing, whatever that is. I've got my head cannon. The time police stops big changes but there are so many time travelers they can't stop them all. Time cop HQ is out of the timeline and has tens of thousands of people living there. Time cop wakes up and the Galaxy's all Borg. They use their super science machine and find out that someone killed Picard as a baby or his mom or whatever. So they go back and fix it. A few days later when they go to work, their boss pulls them over. They've been erased from history. It would cost too much and be too difficult to fix it. The change is too minor. They check their parents Facepad and sure enough there they are with a different kid with your name. They join the Time police too and there's someone else with your name and most of your memories but its not you. Sometimes your time sibling is a different gender. Time siblings are closer to you than actual siblings but not exact. TOS Kirk and SNW Kirk are both Kirk. They are close enough alike that there are no major changes in the timeline so the time police don't care. It reminds me of the Krenim timeship. It's not right by Red Foreman even when the timeline is 86 or 88% favorable to them because all he really wants is his wife back. The Federation knows when to quit. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 25, 2023 16:28:04 GMT
The reviews here are mixed. You're not obligated to like it. If you took 1000 ST fan and asked for a list of their top 25 episodes. None would match and some well loved episodes would be hated by other fans. Yes. Star Trek archive is so vast and fans are so diverse that "best of" lists are always fraught with the impossibility of objectivity. For example, the episode "Sacred Ground" (VOY) is frequently listed on "worse Trek ever" lists; it is one of my favorite from that iteration, easily on my 5 best VOY episode. A great way to start conversations on the difficulties to find common grounds between the scientifically minded and religiously minded. A little campy but top Trek. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 25, 2023 17:09:32 GMT
My appreciation for LD is difficult to explain or pinpoint. Right off the bat I just say that I have been a committed Trek fan for 35+ years, so I am a grown man and I don't need to pass any purity or faithful test. Also, and most importantly, if LD is a product marketed as "comedy" I'll say it is a successful product because on every single episode I am wiping tears of joy from my face, literally.
On the subject of Mariner, I must say I completely agree. She is a really annoying, unlikable character; like a toxic blob running through the story. On another level, I keep wondering if I am missing something. I keep waiting for a feminist interpretation of her to shed some light, but I haven't read anything yet. There's no way around her obvious unlikability, she wears it like a bully badge of honor; but sometimes characters are not there for me to like them (I am not talking about in a villains vs good guys sort of way) but to make me feel unease, that my me being hateful to the characters show something about the idea of roles as played on the history of the franchise. In my mind Mariner is a sort of Dark Kirk, like twisted mirror of Kirk. He goes up the ranks by cheating (Kobayashi) and we are ask to clap in admiration for his brash, smart smashing of the rules; he upended cultural complexities because his moral highground make him throw away the non-interferance clause (later Prime Directive), and we should celebrate his shoot from the hip braggadocio. Nah, I don't agree. I never liked him, he was a proud douche with a badge. But here is the thing; he was important for the Spock/Bones/Kirk dynamic, an explosive combination that produced the best TV show ever. What I am trying to say is that, what if it is a good thing that we DON'T like Mariner? What if through her unsuitability as a descent human being other aspects of LD are brought to the forefront? I am riffing, of course, but come to think about it. Lower Decks is so much more than Mariner. My focus as a viewer is set on Tendi and Rutherford. The ex-pirate and the guy with the Vulcan cyber implant. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 25, 2023 18:22:31 GMT
My appreciation for LD is difficult to explain or pinpoint. Right off the bat I just say that I have been a committed Trek fan for 35+ years, so I am a grown man and I don't need to pass any purity or faithful test. Also, and most importantly, if LD is a product marketed as "comedy" I'll say it is a successful product because on every single episode I am wiping tears of joy from my face, literally. On the subject of Mariner, I must say I completely agree. She is a really annoying, unlikable character; like a toxic blob running through the story. On another level, I keep wondering if I am missing something. I keep waiting for a feminist interpretation of her to shed some light, but I haven't read anything yet. There's no way around her obvious unlikability, she wears it like a bully badge of honor; but sometimes characters are not there for me to like them (I am not talking about in a villains vs good guys sort of way) but to make me feel unease, that my me being hateful to the characters show something about the idea of roles as played on the history of the franchise. In my mind Mariner is a sort of Dark Kirk, like twisted mirror of Kirk. He goes up the ranks by cheating (Kobayashi) and we are ask to clap in admiration for his brash, smart smashing of the rules; he upended cultural complexities because his moral highground make him throw away the non-interferance clause (later Prime Directive), and we should celebrate his shoot from the hip braggadocio. Nah, I don't agree. I never liked him, he was a proud douche with a badge. But here is the thing; he was important for the Spock/Bones/Kirk dynamic, an explosive combination that produced the best TV show ever. What I am trying to say is that, what if it is a good thing that we DON'T like Mariner? What if through her unsuitability as a descent human being other aspects of LD are brought to the forefront? I am riffing, of course, but come to think about it. Lower Decks is so much more than Mariner. My focus as a viewer is set on Tendi and Rutherford. The ex-pirate and the guy with the Vulcan cyber implant. I give credit to Quaid for seeming to know which parts of Boimler were going to translate from cartoon to live-action and letting a lot of the non-Starfleet and the too off-the-wall-aspects of the character go. Boimler here was nervous and awkward, but actually not unlikeable. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jul 25, 2023 18:24:23 GMT
My appreciation for LD is difficult to explain or pinpoint. Right off the bat I just say that I have been a committed Trek fan for 35+ years, so I am a grown man and I don't need to pass any purity or faithful test. Also, and most importantly, if LD is a product marketed as "comedy" I'll say it is a successful product because on every single episode I am wiping tears of joy from my face, literally.
On the subject of Mariner, I must say I completely agree. She is a really annoying, unlikable character; like a toxic blob running through the story. On another level, I keep wondering if I am missing something. I keep waiting for a feminist interpretation of her to shed some light, but I haven't read anything yet. There's no way around her obvious unlikability, she wears it like a bully badge of honor; but sometimes characters are not there for me to like them (I am not talking about in a villains vs good guys sort of way) but to make me feel unease, that my me being hateful to the characters show something about the idea of roles as played on the history of the franchise. In my mind Mariner is a sort of Dark Kirk, like twisted mirror of Kirk. He goes up the ranks by cheating (Kobayashi) and we are ask to clap in admiration for his brash, smart smashing of the rules; he upended cultural complexities because his moral highground make him throw away the non-interferance clause (later Prime Directive), and we should celebrate his shoot from the hip braggadocio. Nah, I don't agree. I never liked him, he was a proud douche with a badge. But here is the thing; he was important for the Spock/Bones/Kirk dynamic, an explosive combination that produced the best TV show ever. What I am trying to say is that, what if it is a good thing that we DON'T like Mariner? What if through her unsuitability as a descent human being other aspects of LD are brought to the forefront? I am riffing, of course, but come to think about it. Lower Decks is so much more than Mariner. My focus as a viewer is set on Tendi and Rutherford. The ex-pirate and the guy with the Vulcan cyber implant. You absolutely don't have to explain, although I really appreciate this post. We like what we like. Not everyone finds the same things funny, I guess. I'm kind of sad that Star Trek, in going the comedy route, went for total self-parody, and I can't equate the universe of Lower Decks where everyone acts like an idiot with the rest of Star Trek because it then seems to make it all a satire. I did try, for the whole first season, then began watching S2 and felt that life was just too short to spend time watching something I was clearly not enjoying. From that point on, it seemed best to just steer around it. Later, we got Prodigy, which I loved, and which had its own kind of humor, so I knew I hadn't an animation appreciation or humor bypass. But that's just me. Lots of people seem to love LD. There are plenty of characters in pop culture that we're deliberately meant to not like, or at least feel ambivalent about - Tony Soprano, Walter White in Breaking Bad to name two recent pop cultural examples. Both are brilliant, complex creations on the part of both writers and performers that mess with the moral compass of the viewer as we watch 'em. I don't get this from Mariner, at least in the episodes of LD I've seen. The big reveal in this crossover ep is that she wanted to do a nice thing for Boimler, something I didn't feel invested in in the slightest, but OK. Either way, as far as I can see, she's supposed to be funny. What am I missing? I don't get it. As an aside, I always liked Kirk... although I don't think I ever exactly liked Shatner; certainly not as I grew up and got to know more about the actor - but I did admire his achievement in creating that character and being such a crucial part of the Trek dynamic. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jul 25, 2023 18:27:20 GMT
My appreciation for LD is difficult to explain or pinpoint. Right off the bat I just say that I have been a committed Trek fan for 35+ years, so I am a grown man and I don't need to pass any purity or faithful test. Also, and most importantly, if LD is a product marketed as "comedy" I'll say it is a successful product because on every single episode I am wiping tears of joy from my face, literally. On the subject of Mariner, I must say I completely agree. She is a really annoying, unlikable character; like a toxic blob running through the story. On another level, I keep wondering if I am missing something. I keep waiting for a feminist interpretation of her to shed some light, but I haven't read anything yet. There's no way around her obvious unlikability, she wears it like a bully badge of honor; but sometimes characters are not there for me to like them (I am not talking about in a villains vs good guys sort of way) but to make me feel unease, that my me being hateful to the characters show something about the idea of roles as played on the history of the franchise. In my mind Mariner is a sort of Dark Kirk, like twisted mirror of Kirk. He goes up the ranks by cheating (Kobayashi) and we are ask to clap in admiration for his brash, smart smashing of the rules; he upended cultural complexities because his moral highground make him throw away the non-interferance clause (later Prime Directive), and we should celebrate his shoot from the hip braggadocio. Nah, I don't agree. I never liked him, he was a proud douche with a badge. But here is the thing; he was important for the Spock/Bones/Kirk dynamic, an explosive combination that produced the best TV show ever. What I am trying to say is that, what if it is a good thing that we DON'T like Mariner? What if through her unsuitability as a descent human being other aspects of LD are brought to the forefront? I am riffing, of course, but come to think about it. Lower Decks is so much more than Mariner. My focus as a viewer is set on Tendi and Rutherford. The ex-pirate and the guy with the Vulcan cyber implant. I give credit to Quaid for seeming to know which parts of Boimler were going to translate from cartoon to live-action and letting a lot of the non-Starfleet and the too off-the-wall-aspects of the character go. Boimler here was nervous and awkward, but actually not unlikeable. Yes, this. He seemed credible as a live action character. If you'd never watched LD, you could just about buy into it. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 25, 2023 20:11:17 GMT
I'm kind of sad that Star Trek, in going the comedy route, went for total self-parody, and I can't equate the universe of Lower Decks where everyone acts like an idiot with the rest of Star Trek because it then seems to make it all a satire. I think here you nailed to the wall the heart of the problem. Most of the hardcore trekkers issues with LD breaks down to parody. What it is? What does it do? Self-parody is the hardest to accept, and probably the most difficult to accomplish. Galaxy Quest, a great and funny movie, it is often listed (with reason) as a great Trek movie, and a great homage. But, I wonder, is it great because there is some distance from Trek, an angle that allow it to be funny? Probably. If you dressed the movie as an all-around Trek feature, like Star Trek: The O'Brien Quest, with recognizable Trek characters and trekkie plot identifiers, would trekkers consider it as good? I doubt it. Lower Decks is exploring how you can go about making an in-universe parody. In my humble opinion it shows how mature the Trek Continuum is. Trek is SO vast that it was about time to just step back a little, light up a fat one of the good stuff, and enjoy and celebrate how awesome we are. |
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Post by scenario on Jul 25, 2023 21:51:01 GMT
I'm kind of sad that Star Trek, in going the comedy route, went for total self-parody, and I can't equate the universe of Lower Decks where everyone acts like an idiot with the rest of Star Trek because it then seems to make it all a satire. I think here you nailed to the wall the heart of the problem. Most of the hardcore trekkers issues with LD breaks down to parody. What it is? What does it do? Self-parody is the hardest to accept, and probably the most difficult to accomplish. Galaxy Quest, a great and funny movie, it is often listed (with reason) as a great Trek movie, and a great homage. But, I wonder, is it great because there is some distance from Trek, an angle that allow it to be funny? Probably. If you dressed the movie as an all-around Trek feature, like Star Trek: The O'Brien Quest, with recognizable Trek characters and trekkie plot identifiers, would trekkers consider it as good? I doubt it. Lower Decks is exploring how you can go about making an in-universe parody. In my humble opinion it shows how mature the Trek Continuum is. Trek is SO vast that it was about time to just step back a little, light up a fat one of the good stuff, and enjoy and celebrate how awesome we are. One big difference between Galaxy Quest and LD is that the crew in GQ were actors trying to be crew members. "I have one job on this lousy ship, its stupid, but I'm gonna do it." But on LD, you have total fools who are supposedly the crew members. Comedy is totally subjective. What's funny to one person may not be funny to another. I personally have no issues with people having a different sense of humor than me. What people find funny is fine until its criminal. Reality on the other hand is not negotiable. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 27, 2023 13:09:23 GMT
But on LD, you have total fools who are supposedly the crew members. And therein lies the comedy! Like Curb Your Enthusiasm on Space but with puppets making Trek jokes. And now that I think about it Mariner is like Larry on Curb, extremely unlikable, abrasive, yelling at your face, most of the time you want him to shut up and get out of the way so that you can see what's going on behind him; that's the thing, Mariner is a untrustworthy proxy for a situation, the good stuff is happening despite her.
But you guys are all right, comedy is subjective. Lower Decks just happens to push my buttons in the right way.
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Post by nombrecomun on Jul 27, 2023 17:45:47 GMT
Boimler, as manifested in 3D, is rather less annoying than his 2D animated counterpart, even if it's difficult to believe he'd ever have made it into a professional organisation like Starfleet. This is exactly my problem with the 2 characters. I can't imagine for a second characters like these would be in Starfleet. We're talking about hundreds of years in the future yet these characters act like teen to mid-20 something Americans. And if you're saying this is a toned down version of Boimler compared to his cartoon portrayal.....yikes!!! I like SNW but this portrayal of Starfleet as more or less a corporate office rather than somewhat of a militaristic organization is weird to me. Boimler should have immediately been confined to quarters once they realized he was a time traveler; not halfway through the ep. That's not a mean thing to do. It makes sense. It's hard for me to see this is the same season that had the wonderful Ad Astra ep. The second ep is the highlight so far out of 7? And I'm hearing there's a musical ep coming up..  Oh boy. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 27, 2023 19:15:12 GMT
Boimler, as manifested in 3D, is rather less annoying than his 2D animated counterpart, even if it's difficult to believe he'd ever have made it into a professional organisation like Starfleet. This is exactly my problem with the 2 characters. I can't imagine for a second characters like these would be in Starfleet. We're talking about hundreds of years in the future yet these characters act like teen to mid-20 something Americans. And if you're saying this is a toned down version of Boimler compared to his cartoon portrayal.....yikes!!! I like SNW but this portrayal of Starfleet as more or less a corporate office rather than somewhat of a militaristic organization is weird to me. Boimler should have immediately been confined to quarters once they realized he was a time traveler; not halfway through the ep. That's not a mean thing to do. It makes sense. It's hard for me to see this is the same season that had the wonderful Ad Astra ep. The second ep is the highlight so far out of 7? And I'm hearing there's a musical ep coming up.. Oh boy. Boimler was toned down enough to more or less work. Mariner was also toned down, and that's saying something. Cartoon her simply can't shut up. Ever. And for all the words she rattles off like a chaingun, she says remarkably little. I can see not immediately sequestering Boimler--until you get to know Boimler. Could you trust Riker back there to not say much? Picard? Sure. But Boimler is Boimler; awkward, uncomfortable, wants to be liked, has no internal censor to speak of. That's a temporal disaster waiting to happen. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jul 28, 2023 2:50:56 GMT
This is exactly my problem with the 2 characters. I can't imagine for a second characters like these would be in Starfleet. We're talking about hundreds of years in the future yet these characters act like teen to mid-20 something Americans. And if you're saying this is a toned down version of Boimler compared to his cartoon portrayal.....yikes!!! I like SNW but this portrayal of Starfleet as more or less a corporate office rather than somewhat of a militaristic organization is weird to me. Boimler should have immediately been confined to quarters once they realized he was a time traveler; not halfway through the ep. That's not a mean thing to do. It makes sense. It's hard for me to see this is the same season that had the wonderful Ad Astra ep. The second ep is the highlight so far out of 7? And I'm hearing there's a musical ep coming up.. Oh boy. Boimler was toned down enough to more or less work. Mariner was also toned down, and that's saying something. Cartoon her simply can't shut up. Ever. And for all the words she rattles off like a chaingun, she says remarkably little. I can see not immediately sequestering Boimler--until you get to know Boimler. Could you trust Riker back there to not say much? Picard? Sure. But Boimler is Boimler; awkward, uncomfortable, wants to be liked, has no internal censor to speak of. That's a temporal disaster waiting to happen. Probably shouldn’t be let anywhere near an away team, then… which brings us back full circle to, “How are these people even in Starfleet?” |
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Oh boy. 
I am so sorry...
Jul 14, 2024 1:18:27 GMT
I am so sorry...
Jul 14, 2024 1:18:27 GMT