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Post by Garak Nephew on Jan 23, 2023 15:33:05 GMT
This kind of smartass take by Matalas infuriate me because on the surface they seem to mock Trek fans. What are we to take from it? To riled us up so that we don't pay attention? I guess that he is not dumb, right? He knows that "Sub Rosa" is just awful, one of the worse ep of the whole franchise. That's not an opinion, is pretty much consensus. Or is he such a sophisticated thinker that we just not get it? What is he aiming at by suggesting that the tone of the last season -and probably the last take- on arguably the best captain (let set disagreement aside for the moment) of Star Trek will be like the worse episode ever? Is he messing with us? Or is it that there is SOMETHING on "Sub Rosa" that we are not seeing?... Or maybe is something else entirely. A kind of diversion strategy. Matalas mind goes like this: "I will say "Sub Rosa" so that when fans find out that the final product is distasteful their heads were already set for awful so they kind of let it go." Prepare your soldiers for the worse so that they complain when awful happens.
I am rambling. I just don't get it. I don't think there's a lot of nuance to this. I just think he thinks he's more clever than he is. Yes, that's pretty much is. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 30, 2023 21:36:52 GMT
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 30, 2023 22:20:09 GMT
It feels like they're just going to do Nemesis over, but we'll see. |
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Post by scenario on Jan 30, 2023 23:00:54 GMT
All I get from this show is 3-D. 1. Depression 2. Death 3. Dystopia Agreed. I think this changed around mid-2000's. I do think 9-11 had an impact on how we view the world. We don't feel hopeful, optimistic, etc....which are core characteristics of Trek. How is Trek to survive when the world has a bleak outcome? We've had a variety of shows since then that have shown us more of this dim view: BSG, The Expanse, and others. Enterprise was definitely affected by this early on. What many miss, especially in comparison to BSG, was the good writing. It isn't there for most of these so it practically devolves in some form of 'torture porn' in which we enjoy(?) the suffering of characters, putting them through some emotional wringer. And this is considered 'good' writing. I would challenge Trek in that this is the time to show a shinier future. TOS came at a similar point in American history. It doesn't have to be TNG's lofty rich people in a carriage pondering philosophical questions. I simply don't think TPTB have the imagination or the writing skills to come up with this. So we get very generic soap opera storylines. Tos was written in the 60's . Its writers learned to write in the 30's (Shirley Temple), the 40's (War stories, fil noir), 50's (Musicals, rom coms). Movies and TV were optimistic. TV and movies became more down beat in the 90's, 2000's and beyond. Writers have been trained for 30+ years to be downbeat because that's what sells. Finding a script writer who can write upbeat scripts is like finding a programmer who can program in COBOL. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Jan 30, 2023 23:56:32 GMT
Agreed. I think this changed around mid-2000's. I do think 9-11 had an impact on how we view the world. We don't feel hopeful, optimistic, etc....which are core characteristics of Trek. How is Trek to survive when the world has a bleak outcome? We've had a variety of shows since then that have shown us more of this dim view: BSG, The Expanse, and others. Enterprise was definitely affected by this early on. What many miss, especially in comparison to BSG, was the good writing. It isn't there for most of these so it practically devolves in some form of 'torture porn' in which we enjoy(?) the suffering of characters, putting them through some emotional wringer. And this is considered 'good' writing. I would challenge Trek in that this is the time to show a shinier future. TOS came at a similar point in American history. It doesn't have to be TNG's lofty rich people in a carriage pondering philosophical questions. I simply don't think TPTB have the imagination or the writing skills to come up with this. So we get very generic soap opera storylines. Tos was written in the 60's . Its writers learned to write in the 30's (Shirley Temple), the 40's (War stories, fil noir), 50's (Musicals, rom coms). Movies and TV were optimistic. TV and movies became more down beat in the 90's, 2000's and beyond. Writers have been trained for 30+ years to be downbeat because that's what sells. Finding a script writer who can write upbeat scripts is like finding a programmer who can program in COBOL. I agree with the point that modern writers have been trained for downbeat since there's a glut of that and it sells to an extent. But look at Pixar. Upbeat as hell and those movies are winners every time. They simply know how to write well which is not the case for nuTrek. I don't know the background of these shows to know who is writing what but it seems like SNW gets it but STP and STD don't. At all. |
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Post by scenario on Jan 31, 2023 1:01:05 GMT
Tos was written in the 60's . Its writers learned to write in the 30's (Shirley Temple), the 40's (War stories, fil noir), 50's (Musicals, rom coms). Movies and TV were optimistic. TV and movies became more down beat in the 90's, 2000's and beyond. Writers have been trained for 30+ years to be downbeat because that's what sells. Finding a script writer who can write upbeat scripts is like finding a programmer who can program in COBOL. I agree with the point that modern writers have been trained for downbeat since there's a glut of that and it sells to an extent. But look at Pixar. Upbeat as hell and those movies are winners every time. They simply know how to write well which is not the case for nuTrek. I don't know the background of these shows to know who is writing what but it seems like SNW gets it but STP and STD don't. At all. Upbeat writers exist. They're just tough to find. Plus studio heads are conservative in the old sense. Pixar sells cartoons for kids. People expect cartoons to be upbeat. People who don't know SF or ST in particular expect it to be dark with lots of stuff blowing up because that's what happens in the movies. Its risky to be different. Until someone succeeds and then they're copied. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 31, 2023 21:13:08 GMT
I agree with the point that modern writers have been trained for downbeat since there's a glut of that and it sells to an extent. But look at Pixar. Upbeat as hell and those movies are winners every time. They simply know how to write well which is not the case for nuTrek. I don't know the background of these shows to know who is writing what but it seems like SNW gets it but STP and STD don't. At all. Upbeat writers exist. They're just tough to find. Plus studio heads are conservative in the old sense. Pixar sells cartoons for kids. People expect cartoons to be upbeat. People who don't know SF or ST in particular expect it to be dark with lots of stuff blowing up because that's what happens in the movies. It's risky to be different. Until someone succeeds and then they're copied. That's it in a nutshell. ... He did it again: The Sub Rosa reference...I don't think he's joking. It might turn out to be a very minor reference, perhaps. Ever the optimist. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 31, 2023 21:57:35 GMT
I have no faith in this guy and we're gonna find out who's right in three weeks.
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 1, 2023 20:46:49 GMT
I have no faith in this guy and we're gonna find out who's right in three weeks. He's retweeting a lot of people privy to advance screenings of the first six episodes. I was watching some TNG S6, including Second Chances. I think he's gonna kill Will Riker. And probably bring back Tom, or leave the door open to that. That was a plan for TNG S7, IIRC, that Berman nixed. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 1, 2023 21:18:09 GMT
I would rather they leave him gone. Every once in a while a death in Trek needs to stick.
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 1, 2023 23:48:43 GMT
Right. It's a way of creating some big drama and emotion, while not closing the door on one of Trek's most beloved actors (and directors). The producers get to have their cake and eat it.
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Post by scenario on Feb 2, 2023 1:22:57 GMT
How long before an episode with Lore, and Tom and Robot Picard and Troi's identical sister they never mentioned before and Worf's clone...
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 2, 2023 2:06:54 GMT
You are an eloquent man, sir, so I've no doubt you have them. They're just all angry, sad, disbelieving, and generally awful.  Vie calls me an eternal diehard optimist, but I know that you understand that I work hard to maintain my curmudgeonly image.  You are an optimist with extra optimism sauce, my friend.  My biggest concerns about S3 are... * Another big bad with a killer starship seeking revenge... seriously; someone SHATTER this story mould, please. * The continual hints that SOMEONE is going to die. Wouldn't this best be left as a surprise, not an expectation? * Lore is back. Ugh. I never thought I'd be so completely sick of Brent Spiner playing multiple roles, but...here we are. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 2, 2023 4:53:17 GMT
Lore is just...so much nothing.
There was a glimmer of hope for him in "Brothers" because it at least hinted to the familial issues he had and the pathos in that, but, damn, he's just Snidely Whiplash.
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Post by nombrecomun on Feb 2, 2023 18:18:31 GMT
* The continual hints that SOMEONE is going to die. Wouldn't this best be left as a surprise, not an expectation? * Lore is back. Ugh. I never thought I'd be so completely sick of Brent Spiner playing multiple roles, but...here we are. Agreed. It's an empty punch if something is telegraphed that far ahead and you know somehow the actor will be back in some other role. S1 Picard had a lovely goodbye for Data. That scene was fantastic.....and then we see Spiner as some Noonien Singh decendant within minutes of Data's death. I am glad this is Picard's last season. This should have always been just one season, something like a mini series. It has over stayed its welcome. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 2, 2023 23:52:21 GMT
Matalas furnished Trekmovie.com with a breakdown of that latest trailer. One interesting point about Amanda Plummer's character: "There’s infinitely more to it. Just because there’s a line in the trailer that references vengeance doesn’t mean people have to roll their eyes about Khan. If I were to include more of Vadic’s dialogue it would be spoiling too much of her motivation. And I’m not in the business of spoiling things for fans that are part of the plot and the reveals that make the story satisfying. So for now, vengeance is certainly part of what she has to say, but certainly not all."You can find the whole thing here.
Her ship's called the Shrike. Wonder if that's a reference to those Dan Simmons novels? |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 3, 2023 14:33:28 GMT
* The continual hints that SOMEONE is going to die. Wouldn't this best be left as a surprise, not an expectation? * Lore is back. Ugh. I never thought I'd be so completely sick of Brent Spiner playing multiple roles, but...here we are. Agreed. It's an empty punch if something is telegraphed that far ahead and you know somehow the actor will be back in some other role. S1 Picard had a lovely goodbye for Data. That scene was fantastic.....and then we see Spiner as some Noonien Singh decendant within minutes of Data's death. I am glad this is Picard's last season. This should have always been just one season, something like a mini series. It has over stayed its welcome. Agreed. For me, Season 1 of PIC completed his arc, full circle; the man who passionately advocated for android rights became an android himself. The End. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 3, 2023 14:35:30 GMT
Matalas furnished Trekmovie.com with a breakdown of that latest trailer. One interesting point about Amanda Plummer's character: "There’s infinitely more to it. Just because there’s a line in the trailer that references vengeance doesn’t mean people have to roll their eyes about Khan. If I were to include more of Vadic’s dialogue it would be spoiling too much of her motivation. And I’m not in the business of spoiling things for fans that are part of the plot and the reveals that make the story satisfying. So for now, vengeance is certainly part of what she has to say, but certainly not all."You can find the whole thing here.
Her ship's called the Shrike. Wonder if that's a reference to those Dan Simmons novels? They said similar things about Idris Elba's character in ST Beyond, and sadly, he was little more than a Khannabe, too. I love ST Beyond is spite of the cliched villainy, not because of it. Here's hoping Malalas is not just blowing sunshine up our nether reaches... |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 3, 2023 23:42:18 GMT
Its so damned dark. Why the hell is nothing illuminated in the future...and why the hell is everything so damned dystopian feeling. So far ive seen in Picard is human racism, bias, xenophobia, drug use, smoking, and brutality. Also irresponsibility on the part of the Federation and Starfleet itself.
Not only is this against Gene's vision of the future, its g-damned opposite, and Eugene needs to be grounded for having any part whatsoever of letting this happen.
And for the love of Q, someone fire that dern cinematographer! And effects house while they are at it.
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Post by scenario on Feb 4, 2023 1:14:29 GMT
Its so damned dark. Why the hell is nothing illuminated in the future...and why the hell is everything so damned dystopian feeling. So far ive seen in Picard is human racism, bias, xenophobia, drug use, smoking, and brutality. Also irresponsibility on the part of the Federation and Starfleet itself. Not only is this against Gene's vision of the future, its g-damned opposite, and Eugene needs to be grounded for having any part whatsoever of letting this happen. And for the love of Q, someone fire that dern cinematographer! And effects house while they are at it. The problem I have is Picard doesn't feel like its in the same universe as NG. In NG the Earth is a near utopia. In Picard its the near opposite. I wouldn't mind it if it made sense. Do the Discovery line. Do something like have warp drive fail because too many species ignored the speed limit. "Its only a Theory." Then Picard ends up in the future when the universe has healed and warp drive is back. Then you can make it as dystopian as you want but still optimistic. ST is a future history. You just can't randomly change things. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 4, 2023 4:50:48 GMT
Its so damned dark. Why the hell is nothing illuminated in the future...and why the hell is everything so damned dystopian feeling. So far ive seen in Picard is human racism, bias, xenophobia, drug use, smoking, and brutality. Also irresponsibility on the part of the Federation and Starfleet itself. Not only is this against Gene's vision of the future, its g-damned opposite, and Eugene needs to be grounded for having any part whatsoever of letting this happen. And for the love of Q, someone fire that dern cinematographer! And effects house while they are at it. The problem I have is Picard doesn't feel like its in the same universe as NG. In NG the Earth is a near utopia. In Picard its the near opposite. I wouldn't mind it if it made sense. Do the Discovery line. Do something like have warp drive fail because too many species ignored the speed limit. "Its only a Theory." Then Picard ends up in the future when the universe has healed and warp drive is back. Then you can make it as dystopian as you want but still optimistic. ST is a future history. You just can't randomly change things. And I'm a guy that WANTED a little more human strife in TNG. That there's so much of it now feels wrong. It doesn't fit. It's like the Federation is already in Asimov-ian decline. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 4, 2023 13:17:14 GMT
Well, it’s clear we don’t like it!
I wonder if this season will change that feeling at all.
I actually did like S1 well enough, but like Vie and Nombre, feel it should’ve ended there. Then, if they wanted to to TNG S8, they could’ve done it as a separate event show. Sometimes Paramount+’s need for Trek product breaks through the fourth wall too much.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 4, 2023 19:41:13 GMT
Well, it’s clear we don’t like it! I wonder if this season will change that feeling at all. I actually did like S1 well enough, but like Vie and Nombre, feel it should’ve ended there. Then, if they wanted to to TNG S8, they could’ve done it as a separate event show. Sometimes Paramount+’s need for Trek product breaks through the fourth wall too much. S1 worked, if, for nothing else, Data got the goodbye he deserved. I don't like it. I don't like what I've seen from the premise, but I would be willing to accept that I haven't seen it all in context, so I can't REALLY judge. My bigger problem has been that Matalas seems to enjoy poisoning the well. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 6, 2023 1:59:57 GMT
Matalas furnished Trekmovie.com with a breakdown of that latest trailer. One interesting point about Amanda Plummer's character: "There’s infinitely more to it. Just because there’s a line in the trailer that references vengeance doesn’t mean people have to roll their eyes about Khan. If I were to include more of Vadic’s dialogue it would be spoiling too much of her motivation. And I’m not in the business of spoiling things for fans that are part of the plot and the reveals that make the story satisfying. So for now, vengeance is certainly part of what she has to say, but certainly not all."You can find the whole thing here.
Her ship's called the Shrike. Wonder if that's a reference to those Dan Simmons novels? This Matalas guy really talks too much! Let it be, bro, you don't need to be tweeting, tossing opinions everywhere, and constantly yapping. I bet Matalas is like one of those guys at parties that never shut up and wants to express his thoughts on any conversation he stumbles in. I distrust those guys. I will watch Picard, but my hopes are low. But I want to be mistaken. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 6, 2023 2:16:45 GMT
Its so damned dark. Why the hell is nothing illuminated in the future...and why the hell is everything so damned dystopian feeling. So far ive seen in Picard is human racism, bias, xenophobia, drug use, smoking, and brutality. Also irresponsibility on the part of the Federation and Starfleet itself. Not only is this against Gene's vision of the future, its g-damned opposite, and Eugene needs to be grounded for having any part whatsoever of letting this happen. And for the love of Q, someone fire that dern cinematographer! And effects house while they are at it. Right! I understand that they are trying not to reboot TNG and give "Picard" its own particular flavor. But, come on, is still suppose to be the Federation, is suppose to be Starfleet!! This show (and they appear to double down on it for the 3rd season) have overwrought its darkness in tone and texture. Like Discovery we will get 98% of impending threat and disaster and 2% of a final resolution where order prevails. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 6, 2023 15:19:40 GMT
Its so damned dark. Why the hell is nothing illuminated in the future...and why the hell is everything so damned dystopian feeling. So far ive seen in Picard is human racism, bias, xenophobia, drug use, smoking, and brutality. Also irresponsibility on the part of the Federation and Starfleet itself. Not only is this against Gene's vision of the future, its g-damned opposite, and Eugene needs to be grounded for having any part whatsoever of letting this happen. And for the love of Q, someone fire that dern cinematographer! And effects house while they are at it. Right! I understand that they are trying not to reboot TNG and give "Picard" its own particular flavor. But, come on, is still suppose to be the Federation, is suppose to be Starfleet!! This show (and they appear to double down on it for the 3rd season) have overwrought its darkness in tone and texture. Like Discovery we will get 98% of impending threat and disaster and 2% of a final resolution where order prevails. One of the problems when new people want to 'modernize' Star Trek without realizing that Star Trek's optimism and episodic format are two of its greatest assets. It's classic escapism, served with a spoonful of meaningful social commentary. Don't pee in the punchbowl. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 6, 2023 17:44:19 GMT
Matalas furnished Trekmovie.com with a breakdown of that latest trailer. One interesting point about Amanda Plummer's character: "There’s infinitely more to it. Just because there’s a line in the trailer that references vengeance doesn’t mean people have to roll their eyes about Khan. If I were to include more of Vadic’s dialogue it would be spoiling too much of her motivation. And I’m not in the business of spoiling things for fans that are part of the plot and the reveals that make the story satisfying. So for now, vengeance is certainly part of what she has to say, but certainly not all."You can find the whole thing here.
Her ship's called the Shrike. Wonder if that's a reference to those Dan Simmons novels? This Matalas guy really talks too much! Let it be, bro, you don't need to be tweeting, tossing opinions everywhere, and constantly yapping. I bet Matalas is like one of those guys at parties that never shut up and wants to express his thoughts on any conversation he stumbles in. I distrust those guys. I will watch Picard, but my hopes are low. But I want to be mistaken. Man, he really comes across this way! You “nutshelled” him. Let’s hope it’s just an illusion of his social media presence, and he’s way more thoughtful than he comes across. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 6, 2023 22:38:36 GMT
This Matalas guy really talks too much! Let it be, bro, you don't need to be tweeting, tossing opinions everywhere, and constantly yapping. I bet Matalas is like one of those guys at parties that never shut up and wants to express his thoughts on any conversation he stumbles in. I distrust those guys. I will watch Picard, but my hopes are low. But I want to be mistaken. Man, he really comes across this way! You “nutshelled” him. Let’s hope it’s just an illusion of his social media presence, and he’s way more thoughtful than he comes across. He'll screw it up, the fans will trash it or not watch it, and they'll just say its MAGA trolls review bombing it. One thing I hate about this day and age, whenever someone has legitimately screwed something up, the backlash is just brushed off as trolls spamming the reviews. That's what they still claim this day about The Last Jedi. And Discovery Season 1. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 6, 2023 23:46:18 GMT
Man, he really comes across this way! You “nutshelled” him. Let’s hope it’s just an illusion of his social media presence, and he’s way more thoughtful than he comes across. He'll screw it up, the fans will trash it or not watch it, and they'll just say its MAGA trolls review bombing it. One thing I hate about this day and age, whenever someone has legitimately screwed something up, the backlash is just brushed off as trolls spamming the reviews. That's what they still claim this day about The Last Jedi. And Discovery Season 1. Yeah, Matalas doesn't take criticism well as it is. Wait until the thing airs. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 8, 2023 21:08:04 GMT
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