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Post by RobinBland on Jan 9, 2023 19:20:37 GMT
I guess we may as well 'port our "Hope and Dreams" thread over from Omega Sector... LAST TIME ON HOPES FOR PICARD S3: Things were not looking good for our intrepid audience as Terry Malalas defensively trolled fans far and wide, but not in a particularly clever or engaging way. Nevertheless, the faithful awaited the debut of episode 1 season 3, hoping that the mere sight of beloved old TNG performers would somehow wash away any dramatic shortcomings of the sort that had scuppered seasons 1 and 2 from boldly going anywhere worth going... Matalas latest [click here] |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Jan 11, 2023 4:27:56 GMT
I guess we may as well 'port our "Hope and Dreams" thread over from Omega Sector... LAST TIME ON HOPES FOR PICARD S3: Things were not looking good for our intrepid audience as Terry Malalas defensively trolled fans far and wide, but not in a particularly clever or engaging way. Nevertheless, the faithful awaited the debut of episode 1 season 3, hoping that the mere sight of beloved old TNG performers would somehow wash away any dramatic shortcomings of the sort that had scuppered seasons 1 and 2 from boldly going anywhere worth going... Matalas latest [click here]The trailer for PIC S3 looks very promising, but after an uneven S1 and an absolutely abominable S2 (one of the worst seasons of Star Trek EVER), I have a healthy skepticism that is keeping any shred of optimism in check. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 11, 2023 16:23:17 GMT
I guess we may as well 'port our "Hope and Dreams" thread over from Omega Sector... LAST TIME ON HOPES FOR PICARD S3: Things were not looking good for our intrepid audience as Terry Malalas defensively trolled fans far and wide, but not in a particularly clever or engaging way. Nevertheless, the faithful awaited the debut of episode 1 season 3, hoping that the mere sight of beloved old TNG performers would somehow wash away any dramatic shortcomings of the sort that had scuppered seasons 1 and 2 from boldly going anywhere worth going... Matalas latest [click here]The trailer for PIC S3 looks very promising, but after an uneven S1 and an absolutely abominable S2 (one of the worst seasons of Star Trek EVER), I have a healthy skepticism that is keeping any shred of optimism in check. Heh. We really got to the "Expect nothing" phase, didn't we? After being burned by Kurtzman-Trek too many times, it's the safest option, I guess. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 11, 2023 17:56:23 GMT
The trailer for PIC S3 looks very promising, but after an uneven S1 and an absolutely abominable S2 (one of the worst seasons of Star Trek EVER), I have a healthy skepticism that is keeping any shred of optimism in check. Heh. We really got to the "Expect nothing" phase, didn't we? After being burned by Kurtzman-Trek too many times, it's the safest option, I guess. I've been there for 13 years. I can't take the disappointments anymore. I'm dreading seeing how bad they butcher this TNG last hurrah. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 11, 2023 20:53:48 GMT
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Jan 12, 2023 1:11:06 GMT
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 12, 2023 3:17:08 GMT
just keep Patrick away from the writers and producers chairs...
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 12, 2023 20:51:42 GMT
Nah, he's enjoying calling the shots too much now!
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Post by Tupperfan on Jan 13, 2023 21:33:41 GMT
Nah, he's enjoying calling the shots too much now! I love the guy, but *sigh*.
As for my hopes and fears, let's say my expectations are pretty low: I barely made it to the end of PIC S2 and by then, I was quite annoyed.
So for S3, I just hope they'll give us some good times with the old crew without spitting too much on their legacy and our memories. Sure, I'd love a good and engaging story that makes sense within the Trek universe and in light of what these characters stand for, but I'll just take a few good moments. Seems like its what any modern TV and movie IPs aims to do anyway.
Then hopefully they'll shoot the horse.
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 14, 2023 0:03:39 GMT
I love the guy, but *sigh*.
As for my hopes and fears, let's say my expectations are pretty low: I barely made it to the end of PIC S2 and by then, I was quite annoyed.
So for S3, I just hope they'll give us some good times with the old crew without spitting too much on their legacy and our memories. Sure, I'd love a good and engaging story that makes sense within the Trek universe and in light of what these characters stand for, but I'll just take a few good moments. Seems like its what any modern TV and movie IPs aims to do anyway.
Then hopefully they'll shoot the horse.
Same. Now, if it was Jonathan Frakes who had the writers and producers in thrall, I'd be more confident that we'd get something that ended up making sense. Frakes, like Nimoy did, understands Star Trek. Sir Pat, love him though I do, like Shatner before him thinks he does but absolutely doesn't. I don't think they'll shoot the horse. Everyone's enjoying themselves too much, and this nostalgia is selling and making everyone involved a lot of money. I guess we have to be content with Trek as a nostalgic brand now. Even SNW is that, essentially. The only Trek show trying anything vaguely new, while adding the ingredient of nostalgia without overpowering the stew is Prodigy. |
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Post by Tupperfan on Jan 14, 2023 2:17:33 GMT
I don't think they'll shoot the horse. Everyone's enjoying themselves too much, and this nostalgia is selling and making everyone involved a lot of money. I guess we have to be content with Trek as a nostalgic brand now. Even SNW is that, essentially. The only Trek show trying anything vaguely new, while adding the ingredient of nostalgia without overpowering the stew is Prodigy. I agree. Despite me falling out of interest for it, one could also argue that DIS is at least trying something new in some aspects (at least superficially).
But I also think there's a balance that can be achieved between nostalgia and being set in a familiar environment. Sure SNW seems to be leaning a lot more on the former (I guess it comes with the territory), which is fine and clearly a counterbalance to DIS, but I feel ready for a Trek show that would go the way TNG originally did: initially avoiding the most obvious Trek markers without also denying everything that preceded it.
I'm saying that, but I'm not sure what I'd like as a new Trek show, so...
As for Stewart being like Shatner in their understanding of Trek, I don't disagree, but over time, it felt like Shatner got it a bit more, while it seems it somewhat went the other way for Stewart (Reading every successive TNG movie-era interviews sure made it feel that way, and ST: PIC only confirmed it).
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 14, 2023 2:51:15 GMT
yeah, I hate to admit it, but Sir Patrick seems to mirror Shatner. He means well, as did Shatner, but he just doesn't understand Star Trek. I think it was his interference that hurt Insurrection.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 16, 2023 18:12:56 GMT
yeah, I hate to admit it, but Sir Patrick seems to mirror Shatner. He means well, as did Shatner, but he just doesn't understand Star Trek. I think it was his interference that hurt Insurrection. He basically gutted the film. |
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Post by Tupperfan on Jan 17, 2023 17:39:02 GMT
Altough I can understand it from Stewart's personal perspective, him wanting to become an action star in the TNG movies made little sense for Picard, the character (a little more in FC, given the irrationality of VENGEANCE!!!, but defintely not in INS or to the point of driving a dune-buggy in NEM).
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 17, 2023 18:03:03 GMT
Altough I can understand it from Stewart's personal perspective, him wanting to become an action star in the TNG movies made little sense for Picard, the character (a little more in FC, given the irrationality of VENGEANCE!!!, but defintely not in INS or to the point of driving a dune-buggy in NEM). I was always annoyed by the fact he didn't want his other TNG cast members in Picard because he was afraid it would be "TNG 2.0". Just what the hell is wrong with TNG 2.0? It sure as hell sounds better than the Dystopia 1.0 we got with Picard. All I get from this show is 3-D. 1. Depression 2. Death 3. Dystopia MAJOR SPOILERS IN FOLLOWING RANT: You watch an episode of TNG, then an episode of Picard, then another episode of TNG, you'll see just how messed up things have devolved with Picard. And Patrick Stewart thinks all of this is good story telling. I don't care about Soji, did care about Dahj, but lets kill her as horribly as we can, lets kill Icheb, oh look, not enough suffering lets kill off Hugh while we are at it. Nah thats not tragic enough lets do worse than TNG about making Troi suffer, and kill off her first born, because, why not? Hell lets kill off Picard himself and make him a clone, and lets do it with bs science with...positrons...cause...why not? And how about we character assassinate all of starfleet and the Federation while we are at it. - This is why I am kinda worried what they will do with the TNG cast. They'll probably kill off half of them if not all of them, and do it in the most meaningless ways possible-because why not? Sorry, I'll shut off my negative mode now. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 17, 2023 18:26:23 GMT
Altough I can understand it from Stewart's personal perspective, him wanting to become an action star in the TNG movies made little sense for Picard, the character (a little more in FC, given the irrationality of VENGEANCE!!!, but defintely not in INS or to the point of driving a dune-buggy in NEM). I was always annoyed by the fact he didn't want his other TNG cast members in Picard because he was afraid it would be "TNG 2.0". Just what the hell is wrong with TNG 2.0? It sure as hell sounds better than the Dystopia 1.0 we got with Picard. All I get from this show is 3-D. 1. Depression 2. Death 3. Dystopia MAJOR SPOILERS IN FOLLOWING RANT: You watch an episode of TNG, then an episode of Picard, then another episode of TNG, you'll see just how messed up things have devolved with Picard. And Patrick Stewart thinks all of this is good story telling. I don't care about Soji, did care about Dahj, but lets kill her as horribly as we can, lets kill Icheb, oh look, not enough suffering lets kill off Hugh while we are at it. Nah thats not tragic enough lets do worse than TNG about making Troi suffer, and kill off her first born, because, why not? Hell lets kill off Picard himself and make him a clone, and lets do it with bs science with...positrons...cause...why not? And how about we character assassinate all of starfleet and the Federation while we are at it. - This is why I am kinda worried what they will do with the TNG cast. They'll probably kill off half of them if not all of them, and do it in the most meaningless ways possible-because why not? Sorry, I'll shut off my negative mode now. I've anticipated that for a while now. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jan 21, 2023 13:05:08 GMT
This most be a joke, but the meaning of the irony (if any) eludes me:
On Twitter:
Someone: What episode of the TNG series best describes the tone of the 3rd season of Picard?
Terry Matalas: Sub Rosa
...
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 21, 2023 16:33:49 GMT
This most be a joke, but the meaning of the irony (if any) eludes me: On Twitter: Someone: What episode of the TNG series best describes the tone of the 3rd season of Picard? Terry Matalas: Sub Rosa ... Based on other comments he's made and clips I've seen, I'm not sure he's kidding. At all. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Jan 21, 2023 18:50:17 GMT
Altough I can understand it from Stewart's personal perspective, him wanting to become an action star in the TNG movies made little sense for Picard, the character (a little more in FC, given the irrationality of VENGEANCE!!!, but defintely not in INS or to the point of driving a dune-buggy in NEM). All I get from this show is 3-D. 1. Depression 2. Death 3. Dystopia Agreed. I think this changed around mid-2000's. I do think 9-11 had an impact on how we view the world. We don't feel hopeful, optimistic, etc....which are core characteristics of Trek. How is Trek to survive when the world has a bleak outcome? We've had a variety of shows since then that have shown us more of this dim view: BSG, The Expanse, and others. Enterprise was definitely affected by this early on. What many miss, especially in comparison to BSG, was the good writing. It isn't there for most of these so it practically devolves in some form of 'torture porn' in which we enjoy(?) the suffering of characters, putting them through some emotional wringer. And this is considered 'good' writing. I would challenge Trek in that this is the time to show a shinier future. TOS came at a similar point in American history. It doesn't have to be TNG's lofty rich people in a carriage pondering philosophical questions. I simply don't think TPTB have the imagination or the writing skills to come up with this. So we get very generic soap opera storylines. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Jan 21, 2023 18:54:15 GMT
This most be a joke, but the meaning of the irony (if any) eludes me: On Twitter: Someone: What episode of the TNG series best describes the tone of the 3rd season of Picard? Terry Matalas: Sub Rosa ... I can imagine the exec room: -"Hey, this ghost f*cking meme with Crusher seems to be popular on social media". -"Yeah, let's make something with it. I'm sure it will be a hit with the kids".  |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jan 21, 2023 19:06:56 GMT
That's real. I actually took that from Matalas Twitter account. nombrecomun is right, we can imagine that conversation. "Hey, bad episodes are always trending" "Yeah, lets bank on that and bring back that green ghost that had the hots for Crusher." Imagine "Picard" ending up being a cheap erotic flick...  "Crushergasm: Picard in space and fully functional". |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 21, 2023 19:43:04 GMT
This most be a joke, but the meaning of the irony (if any) eludes me: On Twitter: Someone: What episode of the TNG series best describes the tone of the 3rd season of Picard? Terry Matalas: Sub Rosa ... I can imagine the exec room: -"Hey, this ghost f*cking meme with Crusher seems to be popular on social media". -"Yeah, let's make something with it. I'm sure it will be a hit with the kids". TNG didn't age well for me for a variety of reasons, but I think you can still have a wholly optimistic show while not pretending that the world hasn't changed. But DSC and PIC pretty openly flirt with nihilism. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 21, 2023 22:32:53 GMT
This most be a joke, but the meaning of the irony (if any) eludes me: On Twitter: Someone: What episode of the TNG series best describes the tone of the 3rd season of Picard? Terry Matalas: Sub Rosa ... I have no words |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 21, 2023 22:34:48 GMT
This most be a joke, but the meaning of the irony (if any) eludes me: On Twitter: Someone: What episode of the TNG series best describes the tone of the 3rd season of Picard? Terry Matalas: Sub Rosa ... I have no words You are an eloquent man, sir, so I've no doubt you have them. They're just all angry, sad, disbelieving, and generally awful.  |
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 21, 2023 22:57:05 GMT
You are an eloquent man, sir, so I've no doubt you have them. They're just all angry, sad, disbelieving, and generally awful. Vie calls me an eternal diehard optimist, but I know that you understand that I work hard to maintain my curmudgeonly image. The makers of SNW seem, most of the time, to have a good understanding of what they're about and where they want to go, and the show is fun. Prodigy same. Disco, for all its missteps, tries. No blunder can quite dim the spirits of Saru and Tilly. Right now I'm wondering how much of a 1701-D-sized starship crash season 3 of Picard is going to be, based mostly on my encounters with Matalas' vision as expressed online. I'm not feeling too optimistic. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Jan 22, 2023 21:06:32 GMT
This most be a joke, but the meaning of the irony (if any) eludes me: On Twitter: Someone: What episode of the TNG series best describes the tone of the 3rd season of Picard? Terry Matalas: Sub Rosa ... Oh Good God. Is someone going to walk in on someone being (insert any sexualized word here). I hope to God he's kidding...that or he just means theres going to be fog on the bridge.... Surely to God he knows Subrosa is the 2nd worst episode behind Code of Honor... lets see the trailer.. ...oh my good god, even the trailer for the episode is bad... |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 22, 2023 21:48:53 GMT
Even with "Code of Honor," I can argue that that's just their culture, as full of what we consider to be racist tropes as it is these people COULD have socially evolved that way.
"Sub Rosa" has no such crutch. It's just abysmal storytelling.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jan 23, 2023 0:01:39 GMT
This kind of smartass take by Matalas infuriate me because on the surface they seem to mock Trek fans. What are we to take from it? To riled us up so that we don't pay attention? I guess that he is not dumb, right? He knows that "Sub Rosa" is just awful, one of the worse ep of the whole franchise. That's not an opinion, is pretty much consensus. Or is he such a sophisticated thinker that we just not get it? What is he aiming at by suggesting that the tone of the last season -and probably the last take- on arguably the best captain (let set disagreement aside for the moment) of Star Trek will be like the worse episode ever? Is he messing with us? Or is it that there is SOMETHING on "Sub Rosa" that we are not seeing?... Or maybe is something else entirely. A kind of diversion strategy. Matalas mind goes like this: "I will say "Sub Rosa" so that when fans find out that the final product is distasteful their heads were already set for awful so they kind of let it go." Prepare your soldiers for the worse so that they complain when awful happens.
I am rambling. I just don't get it. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jan 23, 2023 3:25:02 GMT
This kind of smartass take by Matalas infuriate me because on the surface they seem to mock Trek fans. What are we to take from it? To riled us up so that we don't pay attention? I guess that he is not dumb, right? He knows that "Sub Rosa" is just awful, one of the worse ep of the whole franchise. That's not an opinion, is pretty much consensus. Or is he such a sophisticated thinker that we just not get it? What is he aiming at by suggesting that the tone of the last season -and probably the last take- on arguably the best captain (let set disagreement aside for the moment) of Star Trek will be like the worse episode ever? Is he messing with us? Or is it that there is SOMETHING on "Sub Rosa" that we are not seeing?... Or maybe is something else entirely. A kind of diversion strategy. Matalas mind goes like this: "I will say "Sub Rosa" so that when fans find out that the final product is distasteful their heads were already set for awful so they kind of let it go." Prepare your soldiers for the worse so that they complain when awful happens.
I am rambling. I just don't get it. I don't think there's a lot of nuance to this. I just think he thinks he's more clever than he is. |
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Post by RobinBland on Jan 23, 2023 4:39:02 GMT
This kind of smartass take by Matalas infuriate me because on the surface they seem to mock Trek fans. What are we to take from it? To riled us up so that we don't pay attention? I guess that he is not dumb, right? He knows that "Sub Rosa" is just awful, one of the worse ep of the whole franchise. That's not an opinion, is pretty much consensus. Or is he such a sophisticated thinker that we just not get it? What is he aiming at by suggesting that the tone of the last season -and probably the last take- on arguably the best captain (let set disagreement aside for the moment) of Star Trek will be like the worse episode ever? Is he messing with us? Or is it that there is SOMETHING on "Sub Rosa" that we are not seeing?... Or maybe is something else entirely. A kind of diversion strategy. Matalas mind goes like this: "I will say "Sub Rosa" so that when fans find out that the final product is distasteful their heads were already set for awful so they kind of let it go." Prepare your soldiers for the worse so that they complain when awful happens.
I am rambling. I just don't get it. I don't think there's a lot of nuance to this. I just think he thinks he's more clever than he is. I concur. |
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"Crushergasm: Picard in space and fully functional". 