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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 13, 2023 14:29:47 GMT
Here.
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Post by ashleytinger on Mar 16, 2023 14:50:04 GMT
I continue to love Shaw. OMG how I love Shaw.
SPOILERS BELOW
The Changeling threat isn't something they dealt with on TNG at all, but I like that they're not just repeating it, but that the Changelings have evolved. It's a neat idea. And yes, there's something very wrong with Jack. And seeing Ro again? Very cool and she wasn't completely wasted. That was also nice to see.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 16, 2023 15:33:29 GMT
Liked episode overall, mainly because of Ro, but it still feels like not much of anything happened.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Mar 16, 2023 15:43:05 GMT
I don't know what to think. I am stunned. I'm simultaneously pleased and mad. I just keep hitting the keyboard and see if some sense comes out...
SPOILERS SPOILERS
It was intense, I felt it and yet there is something in the macro story and I feel manipulated by it. As if the characters are not really growing with the story, they are there like stock puppets waiting for little bits of the plot to drop so that they can move their stringed arms... I am being harsh. I appreciated how Ro was brought back, yet it is so very tied up to TNG lore that one wonders how can new fans can engage with the whole sequence without a deep crash course on the characters. I guess that is good for old timers like myself. Michelle Forbes really gave it all to the spirit of Ro! Her lines where sharp, her acting nuanced.
The Starfleet conspiracy is not believable and feels like something drop there to tie loose ends. The big threat lurking comes from Starfleet top echelons!!?? If want to watch X-files I would switch to a different streaming service.
It was good, and only good.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 16, 2023 15:48:00 GMT
I don't know what to think. I am stunned. I'm simultaneously pleased and mad. I just keep hitting the keyboard and see if some sense comes out... SPOILERS SPOILERS
It was intense, I felt it and yet there is something in the macro story and I feel manipulated by it. As if the characters are not really growing with the story, they are there like stock puppets waiting for little bits of the plot to drop so that they can move their stringed arms... I am being harsh. I appreciated how Ro was brought back, yet it is so very tied up to TNG lore that one wonders how can new fans can engage with the whole sequence without a deep crash course on the characters. I guess that is good for old timers like myself. Michelle Forbes really gave it all to the spirit of Ro! Her lines where sharp, her acting nuanced.
The Starfleet conspiracy is not believable and feels like something drop there to tie loose ends. The big threat lurking comes from Starfleet top echelons!!?? If want to watch X-files I would switch to a different streaming service.
It was good, and only good.
That's a thing here: Everyone in this show is reactive. No one's DOING anything. They're responding to things as they happen which isn't quite the same thing. |
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Post by ashleytinger on Mar 16, 2023 18:28:21 GMT
I don't know what to think. I am stunned. I'm simultaneously pleased and mad. I just keep hitting the keyboard and see if some sense comes out... SPOILERS SPOILERS
It was intense, I felt it and yet there is something in the macro story and I feel manipulated by it. As if the characters are not really growing with the story, they are there like stock puppets waiting for little bits of the plot to drop so that they can move their stringed arms... I am being harsh. I appreciated how Ro was brought back, yet it is so very tied up to TNG lore that one wonders how can new fans can engage with the whole sequence without a deep crash course on the characters. I guess that is good for old timers like myself. Michelle Forbes really gave it all to the spirit of Ro! Her lines where sharp, her acting nuanced.
The Starfleet conspiracy is not believable and feels like something drop there to tie loose ends. The big threat lurking comes from Starfleet top echelons!!?? If want to watch X-files I would switch to a different streaming service.
It was good, and only good.
That's a thing here: Everyone in this show is reactive. No one's DOING anything. They're responding to things as they happen which isn't quite the same thing. Kind of like how Indiana Jones never actually affects the outcome of Raiders of the Lost Ark?  |
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Post by nombrecomun on Mar 16, 2023 18:40:41 GMT
I think we're halfway through the show and only now we MAY have an inkling as to what the plot is about. That sucks.
I agree wholeheartedly with what others are saying in that the characters are reacting to the little bits that are happening.
Random Thoughts:
It's interesting to see that the changelings have evolved or perhaps just gotten better at replication. In Star Trek of old the next scene after Beverly discovers this would be to pair up with the science officer to investigate methods of detection. That would be the impetus of the rest of the ep. Has there even been a science officer mentioned? It shows you this is a different franchise altogether.
I was surprised by Ro and happy to see her. While I don't like her fate it does give her character a resolution. I wish she would have done more and her sacrifice reserved for a later ep. However, I think they did cover the necessary grounds with her and Picard.
I was bored with Rafi and Worf. It's unfortunate they paired up Worf with her. She wasn't needed in this season at all. Just have Worf take on whatever role Rafi was doing.
And I think we already get that Jack is something other. I don't need to continue to see his 'visions' of killing officers. Once was enough. Didn't need it twice. Spill the beans already. Move the plot along please.
Cpt Shaw is a likeable and refreshing character. There's no way he should have been Starfleet, much less so high up in command. Biker Bar Bartender. That's his character.
I am also glad they didn't start the ep with yet another awful 70's rock song.
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Post by nombrecomun on Mar 16, 2023 18:47:42 GMT
I appreciated how Ro was brought back, yet it is so very tied up to TNG lore that one wonders how can new fans can engage with the whole sequence without a deep crash course on the characters. I guess that is good for old timers like myself. Considering how many callbacks this season has I'm convinced this was made for long time fans, not new ones. New ones wouldn't have much of a clue. The music, the sounds, uniforms, changelings, mobile holo emiter, etc... I think Rafi is the only new character from the original cast. Is that correct? The producers of this show are conflating nostalgia for writing. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 16, 2023 19:11:36 GMT
That's a thing here: Everyone in this show is reactive. No one's DOING anything. They're responding to things as they happen which isn't quite the same thing. Kind of like how Indiana Jones never actually affects the outcome of Raiders of the Lost Ark? Better an American warehouse than a German one? Or, hey, maybe the German's recovering it would have taken it more seriously once the war started going badly. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 16, 2023 19:18:02 GMT
I think we're halfway through the show and only now we MAY have an inkling as to what the plot is about. That sucks. I agree wholeheartedly with what others are saying in that the characters are reacting to the little bits that are happening. Random Thoughts: It's interesting to see that the changelings have evolved or perhaps just gotten better at replication. In Star Trek of old the next scene after Beverly discovers this would be to pair up with the science officer to investigate methods of detection. That would be the impetus of the rest of the ep. Has there even been a science officer mentioned? It shows you this is a different franchise altogether. I was surprised by Ro and happy to see her. While I don't like her fate it does give her character a resolution. I wish she would have done more and her sacrifice reserved for a later ep. However, I think they did cover the necessary grounds with her and Picard. I was bored with Rafi and Worf. It's unfortunate they paired up Worf with her. She wasn't needed in this season at all. Just have Worf take on whatever role Rafi was doing. And I think we already get that Jack is something other. I don't need to continue to see his 'visions' of killing officers. Once was enough. Didn't need it twice. Spill the beans already. Move the plot along please. Cpt Shaw is a likeable and refreshing character. There's no way he should have been Starfleet, much less so high up in command. Biker Bar Bartender. That's his character. I am also glad they didn't start the ep with yet another awful 70's rock song. RE: Changeling evolution. Maybe that's where the schism is: there are the Odo shapeshifters and these are something else. Or they are simply another step. Changelings were monoform once, long ago. Perhaps they are going back to that, or something like it, and some Changelings want that stopped. Who knows? But it boils down to 5 eps down and no real inkling what's going on. |
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Post by ashleytinger on Mar 16, 2023 20:24:47 GMT
Kind of like how Indiana Jones never actually affects the outcome of Raiders of the Lost Ark? Better an American warehouse than a German one? Or, hey, maybe the German's recovering it would have taken it more seriously once the war started going badly. They were flying it out to that island for testing anyway weren't they? They open it up, everyone dies, the ark stays lost. Ok, I take that back, if they weren't flying it out, then Indiana made them change their time table and destination to take it on the sub to the island. Either way, they were opening it up anyway, everyone melts, ark is still lost. Don't get me wrong, Raiders of the Lost Ark is still an amazing and fun film and other than Last Crusade is my favorite Indy film, it just has that issue going on where the outcome is more or less the same whether Indy is involved or not. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Mar 16, 2023 20:27:34 GMT
I think we're halfway through the show and only now we MAY have an inkling as to what the plot is about. That sucks. I agree wholeheartedly with what others are saying in that the characters are reacting to the little bits that are happening. Random Thoughts: It's interesting to see that the changelings have evolved or perhaps just gotten better at replication. In Star Trek of old the next scene after Beverly discovers this would be to pair up with the science officer to investigate methods of detection. That would be the impetus of the rest of the ep. Has there even been a science officer mentioned? It shows you this is a different franchise altogether. I was surprised by Ro and happy to see her. While I don't like her fate it does give her character a resolution. I wish she would have done more and her sacrifice reserved for a later ep. However, I think they did cover the necessary grounds with her and Picard. I was bored with Rafi and Worf. It's unfortunate they paired up Worf with her. She wasn't needed in this season at all. Just have Worf take on whatever role Rafi was doing. And I think we already get that Jack is something other. I don't need to continue to see his 'visions' of killing officers. Once was enough. Didn't need it twice. Spill the beans already. Move the plot along please. Cpt Shaw is a likeable and refreshing character. There's no way he should have been Starfleet, much less so high up in command. Biker Bar Bartender. That's his character. I am also glad they didn't start the ep with yet another awful 70's rock song. RE: Changeling evolution. Maybe that's where the schism is: there are the Odo shapeshifters and these are something else. Or they are simply another step. Changelings were monoform once, long ago. Perhaps they are going back to that, or something like it, and some Changelings want that stopped. Who knows? But it boils down to 5 eps down and no real inkling what's going on. Yes. I think there is the implication that there are Changelings factions at play, not for what we has seen so far on "Picard" but for what we know of DS9 outcome. I think there might be some more surprises in store, some more cameos from DS9. Like Kira, or dare I say, Odo. If those are the stakes it is about time that Worf pay a visit to Kira on the station to take a ride to the Great Link and ask Odo what is going on. I know it would be a cheap shot but sometimes I am melodramatic like that, if they CGIed René into existence I will cry like little baby.  |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Mar 16, 2023 20:37:54 GMT
Correct me if I am wrong. Is this the first time someone other than the Doctor is seen using holo-emiters? Those are from the 29th century. Isn't that a violation of the temporal directive? The way they were casually using them made it seem like normal tactical tech... I have so many question. Here they used it to remotely cast their images as physical entities, it seems; but the Doctor used it to carry around the TOTALITY of his identity in the corporeal world. I don't know, appears to be a careless use of technobabble.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 16, 2023 21:19:56 GMT
Correct me if I am wrong. Is this the first time someone other than the Doctor is seen using holo-emiters? Those are from the 29th century. Isn't that a violation of the temporal directive? The way they were casually using them made it seem like normal tactical tech... I have so many question. Here they used it to remotely cast their images as physical entities, it seems; but the Doctor used it to carry around the TOTALITY of his identity in the corporeal world. I don't know, appears to be a careless use of technobabble. What I don't get is, it's a holographic construct. There is no reason holo-Raffi would have to be seen wearing it. Just vanish it into the body. But then, Surak Capone would have been duped and we have to have that "cool" fight. |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Mar 16, 2023 22:55:32 GMT
I don't know what to think. I am stunned. I'm simultaneously pleased and mad. I just keep hitting the keyboard and see if some sense comes out...
SPOILERS SPOILERS
It was intense, I felt it and yet there is something in the macro story and I feel manipulated by it. As if the characters are not really growing with the story, they are there like stock puppets waiting for little bits of the plot to drop so that they can move their stringed arms... I am being harsh. I appreciated how Ro was brought back, yet it is so very tied up to TNG lore that one wonders how can new fans can engage with the whole sequence without a deep crash course on the characters. I guess that is good for old timers like myself. Michelle Forbes really gave it all to the spirit of Ro! Her lines where sharp, her acting nuanced.
The Starfleet conspiracy is not believable and feels like something drop there to tie loose ends. The big threat lurking comes from Starfleet top echelons!!?? If want to watch X-files I would switch to a different streaming service.
It was good, and only good.
No one watching Star Trek on streaming are new fans. Everyone signed up for P+ FOR Star Trek, so they are already fans. SPOILER RANT: And warning, it is an angry rant, so I had to activate a Censor scan....(get it? huh? huh?...pad pun, sorry...) BLEEP STAR TREK PICARD, BLEEP CBS, BLEEP GODBLEEPED THE BLEEPING POWERS THE BE, that decided "Oh lets bring Ro Back so that we can kill her off like we did Hugh." BLEEP OFF WRITERS!!! TAKE YOUR UNTALENTED AI ASSISTED "CONSPIRACY" CLONE SCRIPT, AND TWIST THAT SON BLEEP SIDEWAYS, AND STICK IT UP YOUR CANDY BLEEP. So now that I noticed the filters, I went back and watched Strange New Worlds, why is there a thing about forcing deep sharp contrasts on faces. Like seriously. I realized, most of the time, that the actor's faces are either bright/super dark, or they are silhouetted out and the lighting don't even match the dern set. Like everything NU-Trek seems too dark, even my favorite show. I was fussing about how dark the Enterprise looked in SNW, but its everything. Are producers and cinematographers afraid to cast some balanced lighting? I mean come on!!! Looks like crap people!! END RANT To me there seems to be a lot left to happen this season that we are half way through. Go back and watch the trailers to see what I mean. I can't believe all of the rest fits in 5 episodes. Not at this pace. I just got this bad feeling I'm going to be left with abrupt WTFness I had at the end of season 2. Is it bad that I actually like the Design of the Intrepid? I mean I'm pretty sure I definitely like it better than the design of the Titan-A. Also, the self Righteous Picard returns here. I think the Federation got what it (BLEEPING) deserved when the dominion tore the Hell out of it. The way they did those Maquis colonies wrong, has sit bitter with me for 29 years.. As much as I love Sisko, I am on team Eddington's side. Screw eminent domain!!!! Picard can't stop to think that Starfleet stopped being Starfleet and the Federation stopped being the Federation long long long ago, when that Cardassian treaty was signed. I don't know....this episode just kept making me more and more Angry. |
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Post by scenario on Mar 16, 2023 23:02:38 GMT
At least the episodes are getting better as the season goes on. I didn't love it but it was okay. Ro felt in character. Of course they announced who she was so the audience would know. It was pretty predictable but okay.
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Post by scenario on Mar 16, 2023 23:36:39 GMT
I don't know what to think. I am stunned. I'm simultaneously pleased and mad. I just keep hitting the keyboard and see if some sense comes out...
SPOILERS SPOILERS
It was intense, I felt it and yet there is something in the macro story and I feel manipulated by it. As if the characters are not really growing with the story, they are there like stock puppets waiting for little bits of the plot to drop so that they can move their stringed arms... I am being harsh. I appreciated how Ro was brought back, yet it is so very tied up to TNG lore that one wonders how can new fans can engage with the whole sequence without a deep crash course on the characters. I guess that is good for old timers like myself. Michelle Forbes really gave it all to the spirit of Ro! Her lines where sharp, her acting nuanced.
The Starfleet conspiracy is not believable and feels like something drop there to tie loose ends. The big threat lurking comes from Starfleet top echelons!!?? If want to watch X-files I would switch to a different streaming service.
It was good, and only good.
No one watching Star Trek on streaming are new fans. Everyone signed up for P+ FOR Star Trek, so they are already fans. SPOILER RANT: And warning, it is an angry rant, so I had to activate a Censor scan....(get it? huh? huh?...pad pun, sorry...) BLEEP STAR TREK PICARD, BLEEP CBS, BLEEP GODBLEEPED THE BLEEPING POWERS THE BE, that decided "Oh lets bring Ro Back so that we can kill her off like we did Hugh." BLEEP OFF WRITERS!!! TAKE YOUR UNTALENTED AI ASSISTED "CONSPIRACY" CLONE SCRIPT, AND TWIST THAT SON BLEEP SIDEWAYS, AND STICK IT UP YOUR CANDY BLEEP. So now that I noticed the filters, I went back and watched Strange New Worlds, why is there a thing about forcing deep sharp contrasts on faces. Like seriously. I realized, most of the time, that the actor's faces are either bright/super dark, or they are silhouetted out and the lighting don't even match the dern set. Like everything NU-Trek seems too dark, even my favorite show. I was fussing about how dark the Enterprise looked in SNW, but its everything. Are producers and cinematographers afraid to cast some balanced lighting? I mean come on!!! Looks like crap people!! END RANT To me there seems to be a lot left to happen this season that we are half way through. Go back and watch the trailers to see what I mean. I can't believe all of the rest fits in 5 episodes. Not at this pace. I just got this bad feeling I'm going to be left with abrupt WTFness I had at the end of season 2. Is it bad that I actually like the Design of the Intrepid? I mean I'm pretty sure I definitely like it better than the design of the Titan-A. Also, the self Righteous Picard returns here. I think the Federation got what it (BLEEPING) deserved when the dominion tore the Hell out of it. The way they did those Maquis colonies wrong, has sit bitter with me for 29 years.. As much as I love Sisko, I am on team Eddington's side. Screw eminent domain!!!! Picard can't stop to think that Starfleet stopped being Starfleet and the Federation stopped being the Federation long long long ago, when that Cardassian treaty was signed. I don't know....this episode just kept making me more and more Angry. I got my view of ST from TOS where the Federation was the western world. Klingons were Russians and Romulans were Chinese. The Federation always did what was best for the Federation and tried not to trample the little guy if it wasn't too inconvenient. The bad guys killed for the fun of it. But when push came to shove if it was a million Federation citizens dying or a trillion outsiders, bye bye outsiders. Star Fleet and the Federation were never perfect just better than the alternatives. All the talk about how wonderful the Federation is is for people living in the Federation, not outsiders. |
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Post by RobinBland on Mar 17, 2023 4:04:07 GMT
“Computer, locate Jack Crusher.”
”Jack Crusher is hiding in the locker room.”
Ooops…
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 17, 2023 4:44:14 GMT
“Computer, locate Jack Crusher.” ”Jack Crusher is hiding in the locker room.” Ooops… "The thing everyone thinks is Jack Crusher..." At the moment, I'm beginning to harbor doubts that that's Picard's kid. Right now, I can't stop thinking of "The Man Trap." Maybe there was a Jack Crusher-Picard, but he's dead, and replaced so perfectly by Changeling Crusher that Bev just doesn't care. This would make her treatment of Picard here orders of magnitude more awful, but I wouldn't put it past her either. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Mar 17, 2023 5:08:21 GMT
“Computer, locate Jack Crusher.” ”Jack Crusher is hiding in the locker room.” Ooops… "The thing everyone thinks is Jack Crusher..." At the moment, I'm beginning to harbor doubts that that's Picard's kid. Right now, I can't stop thinking of "The Man Trap." Maybe there was a Jack Crusher-Picard, but he's dead, and replaced so perfectly by Changeling Crusher that Bev just doesn't care. This would make her treatment of Picard here orders of magnitude more awful, but I wouldn't put it past her either. "but I wouldn't put it past her either". ...but I wouldn't put it past the writers either.  |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 17, 2023 5:11:38 GMT
"The thing everyone thinks is Jack Crusher..." At the moment, I'm beginning to harbor doubts that that's Picard's kid. Right now, I can't stop thinking of "The Man Trap." Maybe there was a Jack Crusher-Picard, but he's dead, and replaced so perfectly by Changeling Crusher that Bev just doesn't care. This would make her treatment of Picard here orders of magnitude more awful, but I wouldn't put it past her either. "but I wouldn't put it past her either". ...but I wouldn't put it past the writers either. That's the thing, I think, overall, such a thing isn't at all inconsistent with her character as it has existed over the past 30 years.  |
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Post by Yorick on Mar 17, 2023 8:44:26 GMT
Sort-of spoilers…
Crusher’s discovery can save the Federation if she can somehow get the untainted powers-that-be to order tonsillectomies for everyone. Drop those suckers into one of those kidney-shaped trays and see if they liquify. Or maybe a lock of hair, or toenail clippings.
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Post by RobinBland on Mar 17, 2023 23:33:57 GMT
[Potential spoilers]
I feel frustrated about a number of things, not least of which is the storytelling style of these seasons with big, long arcs. Jack Crusher's one element of that, sure - and his relationship to the Changelings certain to be a revelation of sorts.
(Incidentally, I think Ed Speleers is wonderful and I really enjoy watching him act. He's one of those actors that radiates a raw emotional intensity and I'm sure we'll be seeing much more of him, either in or beyond Star Trek. I don't like the idea of Jack as a character much, whatever he turns out to be, but I am really enjoying Ed Speleers performances!)
I probably need to watch this ep again, as I was tired, but I felt while watching that Ro Laren's return that it was the ultimate contrivance to screw some dramatic turns out of old man Picard. People were lauding this all over the Internet, but I ain't feelin' it. That character is the ultimate lingering untied thread of TNG, so I suppose it was ripe for rethreading, but with no foreshadowing whatsoever it felt to me like it was dumped into proceedings as the ultimate "Gotcha!" trick. Yeah, I want to be surprised when I watch good drama, but the art of it is building to those big scenes so they have weight.
In this instance, you were being asked to reach back thirty years to tune in to your memories of the big Ro moments and subscribe to the idea that this was one of Picard's greatest regrets in life (like his non-romance with Beverly). A regret sure, but one that broke his heart? Picard was rehearsing his tirade in Bajoran for thirty years? Has he got one ready for when Sisko gets back from wormhole heaven too? Will Nella Daren make an entrance before season's end? I dunno, man...
Killing Ro Laren off in the same episode she reappeared in smacked of a kind of jaded writer's room syndrome that needs a name - "Goldman's leap" after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid or something, except that's a positive example. "We need something out of the blue! We need to sell this plot point! Let's bring back Ro Laren - and kill her!"
I guess she moved the plot forward in a big way though, so there's that. Michelle Forbes was always like a cat in spandex on TNG - graceful, quixotic, enigmatic and almost balletic in the way she inhabits a poise onscreen. Really, a special screen presence. It was great to see her, but I can't believe that it pissed me off so much at the same time. I'm still figuring out if that's because they killed her off in such a cavalier way, that she was essentially a glorified plot device and all you got was that one showdown between she and her former mentor. Better than nothing, I suppose, but I felt more disappointed than elated with surprise afterwards.
At the same time, there were some absolutely great bits. I don't watch a show for scenes, I want it to be a whole, but whatever. I'm still loving Todd Stashwick's Captain Shaw. He seems to be the one element that everyone agrees on.
Last week and the week before I loved Worf and Raffi. This week things got so corny I could barely look at the screen through my fingers. The fight was cool though.
And yeah, it is cool that the Changelings have evolved. This is a great idea, and it feels like a genuine threat. Young LaForge's reaction to her doppelgänger was hilarious.
Okay, we're definitely in Act Two I think. Imagine how great it would've been if we'd started with this episode, or Ro had been in it from episode two. Maybe Michelle Forbes is too expensive.
Where the hell is Deanna and Geordi? And "Good Lore?"
I'm still here, but I keep waiting for it to begin.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 18, 2023 3:36:35 GMT
[Potential spoilers] I feel frustrated about a number of things, not least of which is the storytelling style of these seasons with big, long arcs. Jack Crusher's one element of that, sure - and his relationship to the Changelings certain to be a revelation of sorts. (Incidentally, I think Ed Speleers is wonderful and I really enjoy watching him act. He's one of those actors that radiates a raw emotional intensity and I'm sure we'll be seeing much more of him, either in or beyond Star Trek. I don't like the idea of Jack as a character much, whatever he turns out to be, but I am really enjoying Ed Speleers performances!) I probably need to watch this ep again, as I was tired, but I felt while watching that Ro Laren's return that it was the ultimate contrivance to screw some dramatic turns out of old man Picard. People were lauding this all over the Internet, but I ain't feelin' it. That character is the ultimate lingering untied thread of TNG, so I suppose it was ripe for rethreading, but with no foreshadowing whatsoever it felt to me like it was dumped into proceedings as the ultimate "Gotcha!" trick. Yeah, I want to be surprised when I watch good drama, but the art of it is building to those big scenes so they have weight. In this instance, you were being asked to reach back thirty years to tune in to your memories of the big Ro moments and subscribe to the idea that this was one of Picard's greatest regrets in life (like his non-romance with Beverly). A regret sure, but one that broke his heart? Picard was rehearsing his tirade in Bajoran for thirty years? Has he got one ready for when Sisko gets back from wormhole heaven too? Will Nella Daren make an entrance before season's end? I dunno, man... Killing Ro Laren off in the same episode she reappeared in smacked of a kind of jaded writer's room syndrome that needs a name - "Goldman's leap" after Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid or something, except that's a positive example. "We need something out of the blue! We need to sell this plot point! Let's bring back Ro Laren - and kill her!" I guess she moved the plot forward in a big way though, so there's that. Michelle Forbes was always like a cat in spandex on TNG - graceful, quixotic, enigmatic and almost balletic in the way she inhabits a poise onscreen. Really, a special screen presence. It was great to see her, but I can't believe that it pissed me off so much at the same time. I'm still figuring out if that's because they killed her off in such a cavalier way, that she was essentially a glorified plot device and all you got was that one showdown between she and her former mentor. Better than nothing, I suppose, but I felt more disappointed than elated with surprise afterwards. At the same time, there were some absolutely great bits. I don't watch a show for scenes, I want it to be a whole, but whatever. I'm still loving Todd Stashwick's Captain Shaw. He seems to be the one element that everyone agrees on. Last week and the week before I loved Worf and Raffi. This week things got so corny I could barely look at the screen through my fingers. The fight was cool though. And yeah, it is cool that the Changelings have evolved. This is a great idea, and it feels like a genuine threat. Young LaForge's reaction to her doppelgänger was hilarious. Okay, we're definitely in Act Two I think. Imagine how great it would've been if we'd started with this episode, or Ro had been in it from episode two. Maybe Michelle Forbes is too expensive. Where the hell is Deanna and Geordi? And "Good Lore?" I'm still here, but I keep waiting for it to begin. Yeah, Ro would have been so much better served if they put her in in episode two and they'd had their little chat and then spent the last couple of episodes working together. It all would have had soooo much more impact. As it was, it's "Look at the lovely, well-acted spackle over here to cover over the fact that we've burned another hour to no real effect." And, yes, the internet is positively gushing over it, and I don't get it. I posted in a Yahoo thread on the episode something to the effect of "Five episodes in and the plot hasn't moved an inch." This, of course, was downvoted hard and the one actual response was, "LOL. Worst take ever." My response was, simply, "What more do you KNOW about the "plot against the Federation" (TM) than you did after the first hour? The answer is, "Nothing." I would say that you had a trail of breadcrumbs, but those lead the reader or the viewer to some reasonable, if even far flung, conclusion. Here, all you have are disconnected bits and, judging by the overall writing last season and this, I have little faith that those bits will be sewn together into anything cohesive by Ep 10. But, yes, like DSC before it, there are good pieces, but they never come together into something I think I'll ever feel the need to watch again. And, I'll be honest here, the longer I can go without seeing Lore, the better. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Mar 18, 2023 4:34:43 GMT
I posted in a Yahoo thread on the episode something to the effect of "Five episodes in and the plot hasn't moved an inch." This, of course, was downvoted hard and the one actual response was, "LOL. Worst take ever." My response was, simply, "What more do you KNOW about the "plot against the Federation" (TM) than you did after the first hour? The answer is, "Nothing." Because 'Squirrel'! We have a whole generation conditioned to be entertained by quick flashes in the pan so much so that they can't think of plot. What is that? Look at The Mandalorian. Much of the series can be boiled down to video game side quests. I like the show but it's clear to me that this is a style. People don't seem to notice this or see it as odd because they've probably been playing games like this since they were kids. Actually, it makes it even more liked because it is familiar. What doesn't make sense to me is that inherently a show based on Picard would skew older in viewership. I would figure that TPTB would create a show to be reminiscent of TNG. I don't mean give us that tone exactly but at least be a modern adaptation of that. Not the music. Not the bridge panel sounds. Not the uniforms. None of that matters. Oh well. I'll be happy when this is done and we get more SNW and Prodigy. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 18, 2023 4:48:54 GMT
I posted in a Yahoo thread on the episode something to the effect of "Five episodes in and the plot hasn't moved an inch." This, of course, was downvoted hard and the one actual response was, "LOL. Worst take ever." My response was, simply, "What more do you KNOW about the "plot against the Federation" (TM) than you did after the first hour? The answer is, "Nothing." Because 'Squirrel'! We have a whole generation conditioned to be entertained by quick flashes in the pan so much so that they can't think of plot. What is that? Look at The Mandalorian. Much of the series can be boiled down to video game side quests. I like the show but it's clear to me that this is a style. People don't seem to notice this or see it as odd because they've probably been playing games like this since they were kids. Actually, it makes it even more liked because it is familiar. What doesn't make sense to me is that inherently a show based on Picard would skew older in viewership. I would figure that TPTB would create a show to be reminiscent of TNG. I don't mean give us that tone exactly but at least be a modern adaptation of that. Not the music. Not the bridge panel sounds. Not the uniforms. None of that matters. Oh well. I'll be happy when this is done and we get more SNW and Prodigy. But, even with Mando and The Baby, something happens. Something is genuinely pushed forward or is completed. Not here. This show is a car that spins its wheels and, every once in a while, a part flies off to "awe" the viewer (i.e. Ro dies) TNG was contemplative, sometimes too much so, IMHO, but "Picard" is not that at all. |
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Post by scenario on Mar 18, 2023 18:23:42 GMT
Ro Laren! By Grabthar's Hammer. I will avenge you!
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Post by RobinBland on Mar 18, 2023 18:57:33 GMT
Because 'Squirrel'! We have a whole generation conditioned to be entertained by quick flashes in the pan so much so that they can't think of plot. What is that? Look at The Mandalorian. Much of the series can be boiled down to video game side quests. I like the show but it's clear to me that this is a style. People don't seem to notice this or see it as odd because they've probably been playing games like this since they were kids. Actually, it makes it even more liked because it is familiar. What doesn't make sense to me is that inherently a show based on Picard would skew older in viewership. I would figure that TPTB would create a show to be reminiscent of TNG. I don't mean give us that tone exactly but at least be a modern adaptation of that. Not the music. Not the bridge panel sounds. Not the uniforms. None of that matters. Oh well. I'll be happy when this is done and we get more SNW and Prodigy. But, even with Mando and The Baby, something happens. Something is genuinely pushed forward or is completed. Not here. This show is a car that spins its wheels and, every once in a while, a part flies off to "awe" the viewer (i.e. Ro dies) TNG was contemplative, sometimes too much so, IMHO, but "Picard" is not that at all. I think that's true. Mando kind of revels in its shallowness, its exploration of Star Wars tropes, but it does do what it sets out to, which is to show some cool stuff, some battles maybe, and move the characters' quests forward. At least it entertains and doesn't frustrate. As Nombre observed, Picard is constructed like a game, when much of its audience, surely, requires depth? Nuance? At least S1 supplied some of that, or attempted to. I feel like S2 and S3 are so wide of the target they're about different characters; it's a different universe, not a genuine continuation of the TNG we knew. Ro (and her sacrifice) were presented triumphantly in a manner so lacking in finesse that you know its authors constructed the whole mid-point of the season around this hinge, thinking it the ultimate drama. They didn't lay the correct pipe though, and it feels to me like an obviously botched modern plumbing job in an old building, taking into account none of the original construction's architectural quirks and requirements. I realise I'm in the minority here though, as most Trek media is trumpeting this as one of the best seasons of Trek ever. (Not quite verbatim, but almost a quote.) |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 18, 2023 19:35:48 GMT
But, even with Mando and The Baby, something happens. Something is genuinely pushed forward or is completed. Not here. This show is a car that spins its wheels and, every once in a while, a part flies off to "awe" the viewer (i.e. Ro dies) TNG was contemplative, sometimes too much so, IMHO, but "Picard" is not that at all. I think that's true. Mando kind of revels in its shallowness, its exploration of Star Wars tropes, but it does do what it sets out to, which is to show some cool stuff, some battles maybe, and move the characters' quests forward. At least it entertains and doesn't frustrate. As Nombre observed, Picard is constructed like a game, when much of its audience, surely, requires depth? Nuance? At least S1 supplied some of that, or attempted to. I feel like S2 and S3 are so wide of the target they're about different characters; it's a different universe, not a genuine continuation of the TNG we knew. Ro (and her sacrifice) were presented triumphantly in a manner so lacking in finesse that you know its authors constructed the whole mid-point of the season around this hinge, thinking it the ultimate drama. They didn't lay the correct pipe though, and it feels to me like an obviously botched modern plumbing job in an old building, taking into account none of the original construction's architectural quirks and requirements. I realise I'm in the minority here though, as most Trek media is trumpeting this as one of the best seasons of Trek ever. (Not quite verbatim, but almost a quote.) LOL. It is NOT that. And, yes, they have transplanted characters 30 years into a narrative future as well and all I can see is how those two styles do not mesh. Also, can I just wonder out loud why the Changeling-infested Intrepid just let her cruise over and kamikaze the port nacelle? |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Mar 18, 2023 20:39:18 GMT
I truly love how Ro was brought back. I do not think it should be examined only in relation to "Picard" because if we only use that criteria this iteration of Ro lose coherence. The strength of this character send-off is because it is NOT on a vacuum; if we only judge the merit of the sequence by how well or not-well it fit the present "Picard" narrative (a fluxx of character images that a poor script is failing to keep together), then the picture we get is yet another bit on a jumble of callbacks put together by a seemingly dilettante fanboy club with a good budget. "Picard's" Ro Laren is not that. In my humble opinion this is the only great thing the whole "Picard" series had given us.
The script was really tight around Ro, but what I think carried the whole thing home is Forbes thoughtful performance, the glances, the pain.
"Picard's" Ro Laren sequence is great because it is aimed at viewers with deep knowledge of TNG lore. Ro Laren is a woman with a profound sense of ethics that carried her Cardassian occupation psychological scars openly, for everyone to see them. This is present on this sequence without the need to be put into words: the camps, the Maquis, Picard, the conflict with Star Fleet ethos, the hard fought claim for survival...
I invite you all to read the up-to-date bio of Ro on Memory Alpha and then rewatch the episode. Keep in mind that Ro Laren was supposed to be the ORIGINAL "Nerys", DS9 writers came out with Kira when Forbes was unable to join the cast.
I am really invested with this character (and also with Kira and Odo, the Bajoran plight is personally engaging) and I think Ro appearance was not only for dramatic effect (though that is inevitable), it is not aimed at new Trek fans, it was a carefully thought nod to a beloved franchise. |
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I am so sorry...
Jul 14, 2024 1:18:27 GMT
I am so sorry...
Jul 14, 2024 1:18:27 GMT