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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 24, 2023 19:27:42 GMT
WOW, 45 MINUTES FOR 15 MINUTES OF PLOT!!!! WHAT AN ACHEIVMENT!!!! I AM SO EXCITED THAT I AM SHOUTING ABOUT IT. OH MY GARSH!!!! ...actually no, I feel like my mindistalkingtomeinamonotone'BenStein'voicebecausethisepisodewasmostlyboring. And Oh my god....seriously, the tired old hidden son cliché. I'm hoping this is some alien's bad joke of a plot of mixing Picard and Crusher's DNA. I rather it be a knockoff of 'Terra Prime" (ENT) than the soap operatic harlequin novel plot point. At least Worf finally got to decapitate a "damned Ferengi"....God, that's all I remember. A bunch of Arguing and Worf decapitating a Ferengi....and Picard saying "he's my son...". Wow That is all I got out of that whole episode...... I'm still not entertained by it, it still isn't making sense, and even the Anti-woke Nu-Trek bashers are praising it. Like the only guy that's not is Angry Joe (Who happens to be the only one I mentioned that didn't get the 6 episode preview). Did these Anti-Nutreker anti-woke bigots sell out all of a sudden? Did they agree to praise it if they got the sneak peak? Does anyone else get the impression (And I get this in SNW too) that anytime a nu-trek character mentions starfleet morals in the show, that it seems...forced...almost sarcastic? Like a kid trying to do an inspirational speech in a school play...like its written by someone who doesn't understand the concept? Also, If they try to pull that off as the Season 2 of TNG thing like you said, They're idiots, because remember in TNG's "Attached" Picard and Beverly knew each others secrets as their minds were shared. Even to the point where Beverly finds out the Picard was in love with her. Maybe they did sell out. Maybe all they really wanted was this sad bit of fanwank, because, so far, that's what it is. As for the speechifying? In Trek up to DS9, it sounded like ideals these people believed and tried to live, even if they didn't make it. Almost everything nu? It sounds like the recitation of dogma. With Burnham, it sounds like wide-eyed zealotry.I'm sorry. When you say that, this image popped into my mind...  |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 24, 2023 21:45:52 GMT
Raffi portrayed the way she is just... here we go again. Even in the 25th century.
Every single turn of the plot was predictable. The cliffhanger was practically the same as the previous episode, and it was so TWOK, so BoBW, it was meh.
And when someone "throws" a starship at you, you know you're living a world where superheroes are the foundational language of culture and that sort of thing is de rigueur. I mean, I know we had giant green hands in TOS, but that heralded a whole Shakespearian dramatic analysis of the need for myths and old gods.
Can I even be bothered to express how dreary I feel the whole Jack Crusher thing is? Do we bother mentioning the TNG episode Attached?
Was I entertained by it? Mildly. Like I said upthread, I had a genuine little spark of joy when Worf arrived. Could it have been staged better? Hell, yeah.
Did I hate it? No, and I think that's exactly the problem. I think I really actively disliked Discovery when it first aired because it felt like anti-Star Trek. But even Disco, as it has evolved, has tried new things. Gets it wrong a lot, as far as I'm concerned, but it does at least venture forth reasonably boldly. S2E02 of Picard feels like treading water as it serves up the greatest hits to a captive audience. It's just an inoffensive pastiche of familiar elements remixed and given a glossy new sheen.
By contrast, after I watched this, I watched S1E11 of Prodigy, Let Sleeping Borg Lie. This too uses tried and tested language of Star Trek established decades previously, but it uses it in a way that causes real drama for our core cast of characters, featuring some neat moral choices and outcomes. There were genuinely creepy moments, and twists where I wondered how they'd get out of it. I cared about what happened to them. It was a really good little episode.
When the supposed "Trek for kids" show eclipses the prestige adult drama version in terms of writing, you know that the latter, for all the plaudits being thrown at it right now in Internetland, is as nakedly bogus as those threads the Emperor tried to pass off as a silken new gown.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 24, 2023 22:23:28 GMT
Raffi portrayed the way she is just... here we go again. Even in the 25th century. Every single turn of the plot was predictable. The cliffhanger was practically the same as the previous episode, and it was so TWOK, so BoBW, it was meh. And when someone "throws" a starship at you, you know you're living a world where superheroes are the foundational language of culture and that sort of thing is de rigueur. I mean, I know we had giant green hands in TOS, but that heralded a whole Shakespearian dramatic analysis of the need for myths and old gods. Can I even be bothered to express how dreary I feel the whole Jack Crusher thing is? Do we bother mentioning the TNG episode Attached? Was I entertained by it? Mildly. Like I said upthread, I had a genuine little spark of joy when Worf arrived. Could it have been staged better? Hell, yeah. Did I hate it? No, and I think that's exactly the problem. I think I really actively disliked Discovery when it first aired because it felt like anti-Star Trek. But even Disco, as it has evolved, has tried new things. Gets it wrong a lot, as far as I'm concerned, but it does at least venture forth reasonably boldly. S2E02 of Picard feels like treading water as it serves up the greatest hits to a captive audience. It's just an inoffensive pastiche of familiar elements remixed and given a glossy new sheen. By contrast, after I watched this, I watched S1E11 of Prodigy, Let Sleeping Borg Lie. This too uses tried and tested language of Star Trek established decades previously, but it uses it in a way that causes real drama for our core cast of characters, featuring some neat moral choices and outcomes. There were genuinely creepy moments, and twists where I wondered how they'd get out of it. I cared about what happened to them. It was a really good little episode. When the supposed "Trek for kids" show eclipses the prestige adult drama version in terms of writing, you know that the latter, for all the plaudits being thrown at it right now in Internetland, is as nakedly bogus as those threads the Emperor tried to pass off as a silken new gown. It really is what an AI would give you if you asked for a Trek script. Matalas has just put Trek in a blender and what's on the screen is what came out. Give the PRO producers a live-action show and see what they do with it. DSC at least tries, but, in retrospect, PIC was an ill-conceived idea to begin with. I'm wholly invested in the former, not the latter. I know already that I'm not going to be surprised by S3. It's just a matter of seeing how many of the old gang survive. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 24, 2023 23:48:28 GMT
Raffi portrayed the way she is just... here we go again. Even in the 25th century. Every single turn of the plot was predictable. The cliffhanger was practically the same as the previous episode, and it was so TWOK, so BoBW, it was meh. And when someone "throws" a starship at you, you know you're living a world where superheroes are the foundational language of culture and that sort of thing is de rigueur. I mean, I know we had giant green hands in TOS, but that heralded a whole Shakespearian dramatic analysis of the need for myths and old gods. Can I even be bothered to express how dreary I feel the whole Jack Crusher thing is? Do we bother mentioning the TNG episode Attached? Was I entertained by it? Mildly. Like I said upthread, I had a genuine little spark of joy when Worf arrived. Could it have been staged better? Hell, yeah. Did I hate it? No, and I think that's exactly the problem. I think I really actively disliked Discovery when it first aired because it felt like anti-Star Trek. But even Disco, as it has evolved, has tried new things. Gets it wrong a lot, as far as I'm concerned, but it does at least venture forth reasonably boldly. S2E02 of Picard feels like treading water as it serves up the greatest hits to a captive audience. It's just an inoffensive pastiche of familiar elements remixed and given a glossy new sheen. By contrast, after I watched this, I watched S1E11 of Prodigy, Let Sleeping Borg Lie. This too uses tried and tested language of Star Trek established decades previously, but it uses it in a way that causes real drama for our core cast of characters, featuring some neat moral choices and outcomes. There were genuinely creepy moments, and twists where I wondered how they'd get out of it. I cared about what happened to them. It was a really good little episode. When the supposed "Trek for kids" show eclipses the prestige adult drama version in terms of writing, you know that the latter, for all the plaudits being thrown at it right now in Internetland, is as nakedly bogus as those threads the Emperor tried to pass off as a silken new gown. It really is what an AI would give you if you asked for a Trek script. Matalas has just put Trek in a blender and what's on the screen is what came out. Give the PRO producers a live-action show and see what they do with it. DSC at least tries, but, in retrospect, PIC was an ill-conceived idea to begin with. I'm wholly invested in the former, not the latter. I know already that I'm not going to be surprised by S3. It's just a matter of seeing how many of the old gang survive. Yup, same. I'm kinda worried that he's the anointed one and he'll be given the next iteration of Trek and all we'll get it this sort of stuff, this bland sludge of nostalgic elements recoated with modern gloss. I'd love it if they gave the Prodigy writers/producers a live-action show, but I'm also worried that TPTB would find a way to dilute the creativity they're allowed in animation. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Feb 25, 2023 1:47:29 GMT
I'm still not entertained by it, it still isn't making sense, and even the Anti-woke Nu-Trek bashers are praising it. Like the only guy that's not is Angry Joe (Who happens to be the only one I mentioned that didn't get the 6 episode preview). Did these Anti-Nutreker anti-woke bigots sell out all of a sudden? Did they agree to praise it if they got the sneak peak? If you mean Youtubers then yeah....I agree. I've only seen one, The Critical Drinker(?) and only watched the first couple of minutes since I didn't want anything spoiled. I was surprised that he liked it. So far this isn't anything different than the other STP seasons or STD for that matter and he trashed those. How is this different? Is it the callbacks? The Easter eggs? At least this guy would have called those things out. So yeah....it does give me the impression that they've been compensated some how to give it a thumbs up. Even if by the 5th ep, for example, things clear up it wouldn't make anything of what we saw better. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 25, 2023 2:15:37 GMT
It really is what an AI would give you if you asked for a Trek script. Matalas has just put Trek in a blender and what's on the screen is what came out. Give the PRO producers a live-action show and see what they do with it. DSC at least tries, but, in retrospect, PIC was an ill-conceived idea to begin with. I'm wholly invested in the former, not the latter. I know already that I'm not going to be surprised by S3. It's just a matter of seeing how many of the old gang survive. Yup, same. I'm kinda worried that he's the anointed one and he'll be given the next iteration of Trek and all we'll get it this sort of stuff, this bland sludge of nostalgic elements recoated with modern gloss. I'd love it if they gave the Prodigy writers/producers a live-action show, but I'm also worried that TPTB would find a way to dilute the creativity they're allowed in animation. Especially with the current fandom gushfest over S3. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 26, 2023 2:15:38 GMT
Amanda Plummer's Vadic is silly and boring. She's a combination of Nero and the Duras sisters ( keep waiting for her to rob the coffee shop with "Ringo"). EVERYTHING in this season seems to be borrowed or an homage from something else (usually something better). A Plummer depiction of Vadic is pretty much the only thing I am really liking of "Picard" so far. It is unique in its own merit but I find on it an homage to Chang's sarcastic flair. In my opinion, Plummer took the task of studying Trek plethora of villains (which basically is a sort of subgenre on Star Trek) and came out with her own take while honoring and recognizing the tradition. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 26, 2023 3:58:19 GMT
Amanda Plummer's Vadic is silly and boring. She's a combination of Nero and the Duras sisters ( keep waiting for her to rob the coffee shop with "Ringo"). EVERYTHING in this season seems to be borrowed or an homage from something else (usually something better). A Plummer depiction of Vadic is pretty much the only thing I am really liking of "Picard" so far. It is unique in its own merit but I find on it an homage to Chang's sarcastic flair. In my opinion, Plummer took the task of studying Trek plethora of villains (which basically is a sort of subgenre on Star Trek) and came out with her own take while honoring and recognizing the tradition. She's as one note as everyone else Treks Core and BBS are calling another one of "Trek's great villains." I'm enjoying her so far pretty much solely because she's obviously enjoying it so much. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Feb 26, 2023 5:49:23 GMT
Plummer depiction of Vadic is pretty much the only thing I am really liking of "Picard" so far. It is unique in its own merit but I find on it an homage to Chang's sarcastic flair. In my opinion, Plummer took the task of studying Trek plethora of villains (which basically is a sort of subgenre on Star Trek) and came out with her own take while honoring and recognizing the tradition. She's as one note as everyone else Treks Core and BBS are calling another one of "Trek's great villains." I'm enjoying her so far pretty much solely because she's obviously enjoying it so much. I'm finding it very difficult to participate in Trek BBS. I mean I think I'm an ordinary run of the mill nerd but those guys are uber fanatics. I hope I'm not disrespectful in this since I think we have(?) some members who are long time residents over there. Any criticism of Trek over there and you get run over by several trucks. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 26, 2023 13:13:34 GMT
She's as one note as everyone else Treks Core and BBS are calling another one of "Trek's great villains." I'm enjoying her so far pretty much solely because she's obviously enjoying it so much. I'm finding it very difficult to participate in Trek BBS. I mean I think I'm an ordinary run of the mill nerd but those guys are uber fanatics. I hope I'm not disrespectful in this since I think we have(?) some members who are long time residents over there. Any criticism of Trek over there and you get run over by several trucks. That’s what I found too. Haven’t been participating there a whole lot. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 26, 2023 17:51:14 GMT
I'm finding it very difficult to participate in Trek BBS. I mean I think I'm an ordinary run of the mill nerd but those guys are uber fanatics. I hope I'm not disrespectful in this since I think we have(?) some members who are long time residents over there. Any criticism of Trek over there and you get run over by several trucks. That’s what I found too. Haven’t been participating there a whole lot. I think part of it is that the community, too, is just so large that, not only are the ones that disagree vocal, they are plentiful, so I can sometimes feel pretty instantly buried. And I say that also wanting to make clear that no one is really saying anything wrong either. It's an okay community to dip in and out of, but, I think it's too big for me to live in. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 27, 2023 0:54:25 GMT
That’s what I found too. Haven’t been participating there a whole lot. I think part of it is that the community, too, is just so large that, not only are the ones that disagree vocal, they are plentiful, so I can sometimes feel pretty instantly buried. And I say that also wanting to make clear that no one is really saying anything wrong either. It's an okay community to dip in and out of, but, I think it's too big for me to live in. As someone who prefers small gatherings over big parties? I love the vibe here. Oh, and "Disengage" stunk on ice (that one's for thread relevance...hehe). |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 27, 2023 0:58:42 GMT
Raffi portrayed the way she is just... here we go again. Even in the 25th century.
Every single turn of the plot was predictable. The cliffhanger was practically the same as the previous episode, and it was so TWOK, so BoBW, it was meh. And when someone "throws" a starship at you, you know you're living a world where superheroes are the foundational language of culture and that sort of thing is de rigueur. I mean, I know we had giant green hands in TOS, but that heralded a whole Shakespearian dramatic analysis of the need for myths and old gods. Can I even be bothered to express how dreary I feel the whole Jack Crusher thing is? Do we bother mentioning the TNG episode Attached?
Was I entertained by it? Mildly. Like I said upthread, I had a genuine little spark of joy when Worf arrived. Could it have been staged better? Hell, yeah. Did I hate it? No, and I think that's exactly the problem. I think I really actively disliked Discovery when it first aired because it felt like anti-Star Trek. But even Disco, as it has evolved, has tried new things. Gets it wrong a lot, as far as I'm concerned, but it does at least venture forth reasonably boldly. S2E02 of Picard feels like treading water as it serves up the greatest hits to a captive audience. It's just an inoffensive pastiche of familiar elements remixed and given a glossy new sheen.
By contrast, after I watched this, I watched S1E11 of Prodigy, Let Sleeping Borg Lie. This too uses tried and tested language of Star Trek established decades previously, but it uses it in a way that causes real drama for our core cast of characters, featuring some neat moral choices and outcomes. There were genuinely creepy moments, and twists where I wondered how they'd get out of it. I cared about what happened to them. It was a really good little episode. When the supposed "Trek for kids" show eclipses the prestige adult drama version in terms of writing, you know that the latter, for all the plaudits being thrown at it right now in Internetland, is as nakedly bogus as those threads the Emperor tried to pass off as a silken new gown.
1st point (highlighted); that one really bothered me. The relapsing, and her weak-will. Played into a lot of stereotypes. Not to mention that her drug addiction should be curable with a single hypospray in the 25th century. 2nd: Yes, it's also a quasi-remake of "Bloodlines" as well, only this time the kid is really his (I guess?). 3rd: My immune system actively fought it. I was just waiting for it to be over, after the first 20 minutes. 4th: 100% this. PRO eclipses PIC in every way. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 27, 2023 1:13:30 GMT
Raffi portrayed the way she is just... here we go again. Even in the 25th century.
Every single turn of the plot was predictable. The cliffhanger was practically the same as the previous episode, and it was so TWOK, so BoBW, it was meh. And when someone "throws" a starship at you, you know you're living a world where superheroes are the foundational language of culture and that sort of thing is de rigueur. I mean, I know we had giant green hands in TOS, but that heralded a whole Shakespearian dramatic analysis of the need for myths and old gods. Can I even be bothered to express how dreary I feel the whole Jack Crusher thing is? Do we bother mentioning the TNG episode Attached?
Was I entertained by it? Mildly. Like I said upthread, I had a genuine little spark of joy when Worf arrived. Could it have been staged better? Hell, yeah. Did I hate it? No, and I think that's exactly the problem. I think I really actively disliked Discovery when it first aired because it felt like anti-Star Trek. But even Disco, as it has evolved, has tried new things. Gets it wrong a lot, as far as I'm concerned, but it does at least venture forth reasonably boldly. S2E02 of Picard feels like treading water as it serves up the greatest hits to a captive audience. It's just an inoffensive pastiche of familiar elements remixed and given a glossy new sheen.
By contrast, after I watched this, I watched S1E11 of Prodigy, Let Sleeping Borg Lie. This too uses tried and tested language of Star Trek established decades previously, but it uses it in a way that causes real drama for our core cast of characters, featuring some neat moral choices and outcomes. There were genuinely creepy moments, and twists where I wondered how they'd get out of it. I cared about what happened to them. It was a really good little episode. When the supposed "Trek for kids" show eclipses the prestige adult drama version in terms of writing, you know that the latter, for all the plaudits being thrown at it right now in Internetland, is as nakedly bogus as those threads the Emperor tried to pass off as a silken new gown.
1st point (highlighted); that one really bothered me. The relapsing, and her weak-will. Played into a lot of stereotypes. Not to mention that her drug addiction should be curable with a single hypospray in the 25th century. 2nd: Yes, it's also a quasi-remake of "Bloodlines" as well, only this time the kid is really his (I guess?). 3rd: My immune system actively fought it. I was just waiting for it to be over, after the first 20 minutes. 4th: 100% this. PRO eclipses PIC in every way. I'm really not 100% certain that she's not gaming him at this point. Would it be an absolutely horrible thing to do? Yes. But Crusher's behavior has always been, I'll put it politely, dicey, when she's "greater good-ing" Or when she absolutely believes that she's morally right. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 27, 2023 1:23:03 GMT
That this thought didn't occur to Picard right away has me wondering; did Beverly snatch some of Picard's DNA and impregnate herself? That's wildly unethical, but it'd also explain why they haven't kept in touch, and it'd explain why the kid is kept like an embarrassing secret.
Funny thing; they're sort of treating Jack like he's Beverly's only son, but...um, Wesley?
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 27, 2023 1:59:51 GMT
That this thought didn't occur to Picard right away has me wondering; did Beverly snatch some of Picard's DNA and impregnate herself? That's wildly unethical, but it'd also explain why they haven't kept in touch, and it'd explain why the kid is kept like an embarrassing secret. Funny thing; they're sort of treating Jack like he's Beverly's only son, but...um, Wesley? There's 'real' son and multiverse son now. LOL. More seriously, holy hell. If she did that, or anything like that, that will utterly destroy any credibility she has left for me. I hope she didn't, but I wouldn't put it past her either, which is sorta sad. |
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Post by Garak Nephew on Feb 27, 2023 2:10:29 GMT
What if THIS Beverly is from the Mirror Universe? Would they do that? Where can that take us?
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 27, 2023 2:16:29 GMT
What if THIS Beverly is from the Mirror Universe? Would they do that? Where can that take us? Oh, I hope not. DSC really played the Mirror Universe out, as far as I'm concerned. Though, in fairness, that's a perfectly valid theory. |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 27, 2023 18:52:16 GMT
Beverly Crusher was always one of the least interesting and inconsistent characters on TNG. McFadden, when she was given something worthwhile, did a lot with it, usually only for the space of an episode (I'm thinking Remember Me or Cause and Effect." Give her an Ethics or a Sub Rosa and you were back to Doctor Bore.
If that theory about Jack Crusher II is near the mark, making her Mirror Bev would be a way of excusing some seriously shady behavior, which I think if it was attributable to "our" universe's Bev, would actually make her more interesting.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 28, 2023 1:33:43 GMT
Beverly Crusher was always one of the least interesting and inconsistent characters on TNG. McFadden, when she was given something worthwhile, did a lot with it, usually only for the space of an episode (I'm thinking Remember Me or Cause and Effect." Give her an Ethics or a Sub Rosa and you were back to Doctor Bore. If that theory about Jack Crusher II is near the mark, making her Mirror Bev would be a way of excusing some seriously shady behavior, which I think if it was attributable to "our" universe's Bev, would actually make her more interesting. Probably the only way I would buy her stealing Picard's DNA and making a son like that, if that's the way it happened. If not, then why the hell did Beverly cut off Jack from his father like that? We saw in GEN that Picard secretly yearned for a family and kids...so, what the hell, Beverly? Once again, this series feels like it's written by an AI with little to no knowledge about these characters. |
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Post by scenario on Feb 28, 2023 4:07:49 GMT
Maybe some third party did it and she just got met him recently. He is a custom clone raised by criminals.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 28, 2023 14:32:53 GMT
Maybe some third party did it and she just got met him recently. He is a custom clone raised by criminals. Which would essentially be a repeat of TNG's "Bloodlines." |
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Post by scenario on Feb 28, 2023 16:37:27 GMT
Maybe some third party did it and she just got met him recently. He is a custom clone raised by criminals. Which would essentially be a repeat of TNG's "Bloodlines." I've come close to believing that this group of writers either doesn't want to or isn't allowed to or doesn't have the ability to write anything original. I'm just hoping they can plagiarize well. |
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I am so sorry...