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Post by RobinBland on Mar 4, 2023 14:38:13 GMT
I liked (most of) S4 and I thought they did a reasonably good job with the whole first contact scenario. They were really reaching for it to feel different and weird and mostly achieved that.
But most of the season’s arc, where they had that one guy trying to scupper their plans while this huge planet-eating thing wanders the galaxy, was nonsense. Another [insert scientific-sounding name here] that threatens everything. Burnham’s romance with Future Pilot Guy became nonsense. Look, I can’t even remember various characters’ names at this point. All those ill-defined bridge characters.
It did get progressively better, but Discovery has never felt to me like must-watch TV. I watch it because it’s live action Star Trek with the feel of loosely-strung together fanfic. “This happens, this happens then, no, THIS happens! I had a better idea!” It has the branding. (But there is better actual fanfic.)
I watch it for Doug Jones’ Saru and the occasional Tilly action, little else. They never successfully bound this crew together like you could believe it.
I would watch a Saru spin-off show though - his character was consistently the best and most intriguing thing on the show.
I look forward to S5 but sadly I don’t think I’m going to mourn this show.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 4, 2023 18:53:47 GMT
I liked (most of) S4 and I thought they did a reasonably good job with the whole first contact scenario. They were really reaching for it to feel different and weird and mostly achieved that. But most of the season’s arc, where they had that one guy trying to scupper their plans while this huge planet-eating thing wanders the galaxy, was nonsense. Another [insert scientific-sounding name here] that threatens everything. Burnham’s romance with Future Pilot Guy became nonsense. Look, I can’t even remember various characters’ names at this point. All those ill-defined bridge characters. It did get progressively better, but Discovery has never felt to me like must-watch TV. I watch it because it’s live action Star Trek with the feel of loosely-strung together fanfic. “This happens, this happens then, no, THIS happens! I had a better idea!” It has the branding. (But there is better actual fanfic.) I watch it for Doug Jones’ Saru and the occasional Tilly action, little else. They never successfully bound this crew together like you could believe it. I would watch a Saru spin-off show though - his character was consistently the best and most intriguing thing on the show. I look forward to S5 but sadly I don’t think I’m going to mourn this show. I'll actually mourn a lot more if this season is good, as in, "Why weren't you doing this years ago?" |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Mar 5, 2023 1:28:57 GMT
No more sulking, sad tales of woe, trauma, healing, therapy etc. (yes, those things are very important, but we don't need to have them reiterated every single week, do we?) Is it wrong for me to want a Star Trek DSC season that is both thought-provoking AND fun? You know, your comment gave me the thought that this nuTrek is like the Star Trek version of grunge/alternative back in the early 90's. Think 'misery loves company'. There are groups of people that enjoy/get off on this type of misery porn. I suppose it does reveal that many parts of our society feel psychologically impinged. There's a reason I'm a bigger "Orville" fan these days, I guess. |
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Post by RobinBland on Mar 6, 2023 17:48:31 GMT
You know, your comment gave me the thought that this nuTrek is like the Star Trek version of grunge/alternative back in the early 90's. Think 'misery loves company'. There are groups of people that enjoy/get off on this type of misery porn. I suppose it does reveal that many parts of our society feel psychologically impinged. There's a reason I'm a bigger "Orville" fan these days, I guess. Orville manages to maintain that optimistic feel. It's strange, but they both feel like shows that are riffing on Star Trek tropes, rather than being Star Trek in a way that both SNW or Prodigy manage. And Orville feels more Trekkian than Disco in many ways. Maybe it's a generational thing? I have some friends who love Discovery, but they're a fair bit younger than me. And others, older, who say things like, "Why do the characters cry all the time?" That's an exaggeration of course, and personally, I don't mind if characters cry, but the reasons for that state of mind have to be up there on the screen and I frequently feel that things happened on Disco because "plot says so." So, if they do get the mix of ingredients right in S5, yeah, that'll be sad, because it'll just be too late. |
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Post by nombrecomun on Mar 6, 2023 18:27:29 GMT
There's a reason I'm a bigger "Orville" fan these days, I guess. Orville manages to maintain that optimistic feel. It's strange, but they both feel like shows that are riffing on Star Trek tropes, rather than being Star Trek in a way that both SNW or Prodigy manage. And Orville feels more Trekkian than Disco in many ways. Maybe it's a generational thing? I have some friends who love Discovery, but they're a fair bit younger than me. And others, older, who say things like, "Why do the characters cry all the time?" That's an exaggeration of course, and personally, I don't mind if characters cry, but the reasons for that state of mind have to be up there on the screen and I frequently feel that things happened on Disco because "plot says so." So, if they do get the mix of ingredients right in S5, yeah, that'll be sad, because it'll just be too late. I do agree that there does seem to be a generational preference for STD. I wonder if this has to do with a decade plus of CW style soap opera/action shows like the Arrowverse. It really started with Smallville. Maybe Lois and Clark. That's about 3 decades ago now. You would get a scene related to the plot and then a soap opera part where two characters talk about their feelings and their relationship. I remember watching Arrow and The Flash thinking those 2 parts felt like 2 different shows smashed together. I need someone to edit out those cringey melodramatic parts. Maybe then those shows would be good. Back to S5 of STD. I don't know what 'mix' would make STD better at this point. Fans count on those emotional crying scenes. It's part of the show's DNA. It's exactly the same thing that repels others including me. Maybe it bears in mind to say that younger fans grew up post 9/11 and visual media changed as well. ENT changed. We got nuBSG with that as well. It's just that to me the pessimism and cynical approach runs counter to what Trek is about in the first place...but I wouldn't be surprised if most fans of STD don't know much about TNG, TOS, etc...It's really a show for a different audience and not necessarily a Star Trek audience. |
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Post by scenario on Mar 7, 2023 1:38:58 GMT
I'm not sure if its all generational. I'm old enough to have watched TOS in its original run. Kirk had red shirts killed right in front of him every other episode. He cared so little, he came across as a sociopath to me. The way I dealt with it was in my head, the Enterprise went on 10 or 20 or more missions for every episode they showed. Most episodes happened days, weeks or months apart. They've had time to grieve.
But Discovery is an ongoing storyline. If something horrible happened a few hours ago and it hasn't affected you at all, you have problems. Without the emotional scenes it would come across like a Monty Python sketch. "Oh... and Jenkins... apparently your mother died this morning."
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 7, 2023 4:32:56 GMT
I'm not sure if its all generational. I'm old enough to have watched TOS in its original run. Kirk had red shirts killed right in front of him every other episode. He cared so little, he came across as a sociopath to me. The way I dealt with it was in my head, the Enterprise went on 10 or 20 or more missions for every episode they showed. Most episodes happened days, weeks or months apart. They've had time to grieve. But Discovery is an ongoing storyline. If something horrible happened a few hours ago and it hasn't affected you at all, you have problems. Without the emotional scenes it would come across like a Monty Python sketch. "Oh... and Jenkins... apparently your mother died this morning." That's probably about right, timewise for TOS. |
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Post by RobinBland on Mar 7, 2023 13:13:59 GMT
I checked out of Smallville early during S1 and never watched any of those subsequent DC universe shows for the very reasons you outline, Nombre.
And yes, Kirk’s reactions to the number of dead his away missions sometimes entailed is, in any context, weird. Even as a kid, I chalked that up to the vagaries of TV production - it was a trope visible on many other shows and in war films I saw on TV. People died, unmourned, unremarked upon. That began to change in the 1980s, IIRC? Star Trek, especially, had to begin to address its own clichés.
I think the situ on Disco re: realistic depiction of emotions is something different again, and I do think response to it is related to how a generation’s taste’s are shaped by the media they consume. But yeah, it’s always more complex than that. There are always other factors. It’s just interesting to note that for one member of an audience, that’ll be seen as a flaw while, for another, a strength. There is, I believe, a universal way of playing it that satisfies all, but it would require a different and more unified overall vision and approach to both writing and the overall style of the show (any show, not just Disco).
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Post by nombrecomun on Mar 7, 2023 18:10:04 GMT
I'm not sure if its all generational. I'm old enough to have watched TOS in its original run. Kirk had red shirts killed right in front of him every other episode. He cared so little, he came across as a sociopath to me. The way I dealt with it was in my head, the Enterprise went on 10 or 20 or more missions for every episode they showed. Most episodes happened days, weeks or months apart. They've had time to grieve. But Discovery is an ongoing storyline. If something horrible happened a few hours ago and it hasn't affected you at all, you have problems. Without the emotional scenes it would come across like a Monty Python sketch. "Oh... and Jenkins... apparently your mother died this morning." Those are great points and like someone else said, I think of TOS as episodic in which there is a significant amount of time between them. Even if there wasn't a significant passage of time, this wasn't the type of show to deal with emotions; rather ideas and action. I also give it a pass given when this show aired. It would be unfair to compare it to TNG, nuBSG, The Expanse, etc...The times dictate the entertainment. The issue with STD is not necessarily that they concentrate on emotional scenes. It's how they do it. The characters act more like high school/college age people(or at least what we think people those ages act today) rather than members of a professional quasi military organization like Starfleet. STP suffers from similar structure. It also feels forced rather than natural. It's part of the formula. One scene devoted to the actual plot. Another scene for melodramatic purposes that has little to do with the narrative. Perhaps in 10 years we'll say the same thing about STD and STP regarding being products of their time....but then we have SNW and Prodigy happening concurrently and both of those shows have more Trek DNA in them than the aforementioned. Even The Orville manages more of a Trek vibe than STD and STP. |
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Post by RobinBland on Mar 7, 2023 18:25:25 GMT
....but then we have SNW and Prodigy happening concurrently and both of those shows have more Trek DNA in them than the aforementioned. Even The Orville manages more of a Trek vibe than STD and STP. When it comes right down to it, those are both well-planned, well written shows. Both knew what they were and what they were trying to achieve right out of the gate. They were properly conceived and executed. We know Discovery was rushed into production in S1 and lost its main "visionary" showrunner and S2 saw subsequent showrunners fired halfway through. (And it shows.) There was all kinds of behind-the-scenes chaos, and the tone was all over the place. It's kind of amazing that what came out of that, essentially, was SNW. With Michelle Paradise's involvement, Discovery became a more settled affair, but it's never genuinely bloomed and become its own thing the way TNG, DS9 and even VOY and ENT did. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Mar 8, 2023 13:58:52 GMT
When it comes right down to it, those are both well-planned, well written shows. Both knew what they were and what they were trying to achieve right out of the gate. They were properly conceived and executed. We know Discovery was rushed into production in S1 and lost its main "visionary" showrunner and S2 saw subsequent showrunners fired halfway through. (And it shows.) There was all kinds of behind-the-scenes chaos, and the tone was all over the place. It's kind of amazing that what came out of that, essentially, was SNW. With Michelle Paradise's involvement, Discovery became a more settled affair, but it's never genuinely bloomed and become its own thing the way TNG, DS9 and even VOY and ENT did.  |
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Post by RobinBland on Feb 29, 2024 16:19:24 GMT
How are we all feeling now, now that Disco S5 is imminent?
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Post by nombrecomun on Feb 29, 2024 18:47:11 GMT
How are we all feeling now, now that Disco S5 is imminent? Fine by me....but I'm not a fan. I won't be watching anyway. Glad that resources will be placed, hopefully, in better projects. |
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Post by MrPicard on Mar 1, 2024 6:18:43 GMT
I stopped being interested in the show after season 2. Ahem. lol
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Post by RobinBland on Mar 1, 2024 18:31:35 GMT
I'm sure I'll watch it.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Mar 8, 2024 3:07:06 GMT
I am not the biggest fan of retconing, but I would make an exception. Discovery should retcon itself and erase Elon Musk out of Trek future. Someone had to say it.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Mar 11, 2024 3:42:29 GMT
I am not the biggest fan of retconing, but I would make an exception. Discovery should retcon itself and erase Elon Musk out of Trek future. Someone had to say it. I was already uncomfortable with the reference in S2. Since then, it's just become even more just gross, as the man has revealed himself to be more gross. We're skirting close to, like, "Josef Goebbels Middle School" here. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 19, 2024 0:30:13 GMT
The latest episode felt like a throwback to '90s Trek, and I enjoyed it very much (kind of a cross between VGR's "Shattered" and "Relativity"), though it still have DSC's flaws as well. Once again, I hope the series ends on a high note, because with the exception of Lower Decks, I'm not rooting for ANY Star Trek series to fail (seems I got my diabolical wish on that one...).
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 19, 2024 15:46:52 GMT
The latest episode felt like a throwback to '90s Trek, and I enjoyed it very much (kind of a cross between VGR's "Shattered" and "Relativity"), though it still have DSC's flaws as well. Once again, I hope the series ends on a high note, because with the exception of Lower Decks, I'm not rooting for ANY Star Trek series to fail (seems I got my diabolical wish on that one...). Unless it completely tanks in the back half, this is easily the best season. |
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Post by RobinBland on Apr 22, 2024 15:21:11 GMT
The latest episode felt like a throwback to '90s Trek, and I enjoyed it very much (kind of a cross between VGR's "Shattered" and "Relativity"), though it still have DSC's flaws as well. Once again, I hope the series ends on a high note, because with the exception of Lower Decks, I'm not rooting for ANY Star Trek series to fail (seems I got my diabolical wish on that one...). I saw that Lowest Dreck ain't continuing past S5... although that's pretty good going for any show, even if animated. Haven't seen any Disco S5 yet. Gonna wait for the whole season to drop, then will binge. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 25, 2024 0:30:31 GMT
The latest episode felt like a throwback to '90s Trek, and I enjoyed it very much (kind of a cross between VGR's "Shattered" and "Relativity"), though it still have DSC's flaws as well. Once again, I hope the series ends on a high note, because with the exception of Lower Decks, I'm not rooting for ANY Star Trek series to fail (seems I got my diabolical wish on that one...). I saw that Lowest Dreck ain't continuing past S5... although that's pretty good going for any show, even if animated. Haven't seen any Disco S5 yet. Gonna wait for the whole season to drop, then will binge. You're not missing too much yet; it's better than S4 (Commander Rayner is great), but it's still another 'puzzle box' story, with clues-of-the-week. You're wise to wait. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 25, 2024 0:32:16 GMT
I am not the biggest fan of retconing, but I would make an exception. Discovery should retcon itself and erase Elon Musk out of Trek future. Someone had to say it. You're absolutely right. Although in fairness, the person citing Elon Musk as a great man was from the Mirror Universe, so... |
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Post by MrPicard on Apr 25, 2024 9:21:49 GMT
That should have been the biggest warning sign that Lorca was from the MU - they should have grabbed him right there, lol.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Apr 25, 2024 14:16:01 GMT
That should have been the biggest warning sign that Lorca was from the MU - they should have grabbed him right there, lol. It makes me wonder how much worse Musk might be in the Mirror Universe...!  |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Apr 25, 2024 15:48:39 GMT
That should have been the biggest warning sign that Lorca was from the MU - they should have grabbed him right there, lol. It makes me wonder how much worse Musk might be in the Mirror Universe...! I'll wager he's the actually the petty, mercurial despot ours is, with a whole lot more bloodshed involved than just censoring who he wants and bilking people out of $8/month for blue checks. |
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I am so sorry...