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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jun 21, 2024 17:52:39 GMT
They STILL think Star Trek can be like Star Wars or Marvel, which are both easily accessible and everywhere due to excellent marketing strategies (which is something Paramount never had and will never have). They STILL think they can attract young people through a television series. I know a lot of younger Trekkies and literally NONE of them has a "I subscribed to a streaming service called Paramount+ and then came across this and watched it" origin story. ALL of them have "my father/mother/boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever introduced me to this" stories though. Star Trek is and always will be a niche franchise whose vast majority of fans is being created through other fans who introduce them to the franchise. It was all because of the old fans from the 60s who then introduced their kids to Trek in the late 80s and 90s. And now those fans are parents but a lot of them have fallen off the Trek wagon due to the franchise being in the state it is in today. AND, I'm sorry to say, but Star Trek just isn't made for our modern times anymore. Young people are worrying about things. They don't want to listen to a franchise that preaches "it will all be okay one day in the far future". They think "how can things be okay with the way we ruin everything now". And, honestly, there are SO many shows out there that cater to young people, and do so wonderfully. Why would younger fans want to bother with something as obscure as Star Trek? It's been nearly 50 years that Paramount has been trying to make Trek a Star Wars-level success and it's just not going to be that. I don't understand why they repeatedly throw $150M at a movie, then HONESTLY complain when it doesn't do $800M. Dudes, you KNEW it was never going to do 800M, so why are we here? I'm sick of hearing them whine about it, frankly. I actually think they'd be on a good track if they released P+ Trek movies into theaters for 2-4 weeks before they air. It's all found money at that point and they may find something ends up being a little pop culture buzzy that they can build on. As for modern times, I think that's sort of why DSC was the way it was with trying to do this never-ending undercurrent of angst, but there was never any parallel to the now that people could relate to. It was just, all too often, Burnham being weepy and other people expressing melancholy. Kurtzman said recently that part of the reason he chose an Academy premise is that young people are living in an uncertain world and are being faced with hard choices when it comes to fixing problems that previous generations have created. Great. Really. That's a relatable idea, even for me. But how do a bunch of STUDENTS do that? For me that's better served by, say, a young-ish crew commanding a ship trying to reconcile the ideals they had drilled into them by the likes of Tilly with the reality in which they live being out there in a shredded galaxy that's trying to rebuild. And you don't even have to play that same thing in terms of young and old. You can do the same thing with a show between TOS and TNG, with problems and changes and adaptation for a galaxy and a Starfleet going from a cowboy, gunslinger, wagon train to the stars TOS and the "Everything kinda feels settled now." TNG. |
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Post by Yorick on Jun 21, 2024 20:04:00 GMT
They think "how can things be okay with the way we ruin everything now". And, honestly, there are SO many shows out there that cater to young people, and do so wonderfully. Why would younger fans want to bother with something as obscure as Star Trek? Potentially, for the same reason the original appealed to young people back in a troubled 1960s. Your quote above is almost a paraphrase of Roberta Lincoln from Assignment Earth. Young people were the core audience. What was the secret? Partly a production and writing team trying to do something good week after week (all those memos!) and partly the social, political and television context of the time. Having said that, will Starfleet Academy be any good? Almost certainly not. The boldness is absent from Star Trek at present. The desire to say something is there, but derived from glancing about and looking to see what everyone else is saying, not from stepping out of the ranks and trying something new. Star Trek is done for now. It was done a couple of times before but came back. Those other times the return was fuelled by enthusiastic, respectful nostalgia, by inspiration and gratitude for ideas and hope and even life choices it unlocked. These days returns are fuelled by an antimatter version of this: we must remake past successes to make more money. We must not step out of line! It may come back again in that bold form that captured its wide, loyal and durable audience from scratch. But not in the current milieu. “Until then there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in your beliefs, and prove to me I am not mistaken in mine.” |
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Post by nombrecomun on Jun 21, 2024 20:24:14 GMT
They STILL think Star Trek can be like Star Wars or Marvel, which are both easily accessible and everywhere due to excellent marketing strategies (which is something Paramount never had and will never have). They STILL think they can attract young people through a television series. I know a lot of younger Trekkies and literally NONE of them has a "I subscribed to a streaming service called Paramount+ and then came across this and watched it" origin story. ALL of them have "my father/mother/boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever introduced me to this" stories though. Star Trek is and always will be a niche franchise whose vast majority of fans is being created through other fans who introduce them to the franchise. It was all because of the old fans from the 60s who then introduced their kids to Trek in the late 80s and 90s. And now those fans are parents but a lot of them have fallen off the Trek wagon due to the franchise being in the state it is in today. AND, I'm sorry to say, but Star Trek just isn't made for our modern times anymore. Young people are worrying about things. They don't want to listen to a franchise that preaches "it will all be okay one day in the far future". They think "how can things be okay with the way we ruin everything now". And, honestly, there are SO many shows out there that cater to young people, and do so wonderfully. Why would younger fans want to bother with something as obscure as Star Trek? There still is a way to keep the franchise invigorated.....and that's through actually telling scifi stories; something nuTrek has distanced itself from. That appeals to young, old, and everyone in between. As you say, and I agree, Trek isn't a pop franchise and yet TPTB are hell bent on making Trek as commercially viable as Marvel and SW(let's not even bring up how those are sinking in quality as well). It was niche AND was successful. |
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Post by scenario on Jun 24, 2024 14:30:04 GMT
ST is a niche product wnich will never have mass appeal. It requires excellent writing to succeed. But excellent writing is in itself a niche product especially in TV. Many of the shows with excellent writing never had a big audience when they aired. TOS had middle of the pack ratings. It didn't become really popular until years later.
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Post by The Founder on Jun 25, 2024 5:39:59 GMT
I'm not sure I'd ever call Star Trek obscure but I don't think you are ultimately wrong about luring young fans to Star Trek in the way they are attempting. What's weird about the whole TNG-era type Star Trek doesn't work for younger folks .... is ... I'm pretty sure most of us were young when it came out.
I'm open to this series. I'm honestly not trying not to go into it with a negative mindset but I am curious as to how it will work. Since they want to do a different "take" on Star Trek (no ship/station), is it going to essentially be a higher stakes version of Abramsverse scenes during the academy years? I'm not sure.
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Post by MrPicard on Jun 27, 2024 5:20:22 GMT
It's obscure anywhere outside the US. Niche in the US, obscure everywhere else. It's not part of the cultural heritage in any country outside the US. Which is precisely why Paramount tends to focus its marketing on the one country where they think they have a shot - the US, and why they leave the rest of the world in the dust unless they're REALLY in the mood for throwing us a bone here and there. It's why it took so long for Paramount+ to be launched outside the US and why it isn't its own thing but comes with other streaming services in a package because they know they'd never be able to sell it on its own outside the US. (I would still be willing to bet that its international launch was utterly unsuccessful tho.)
What worked on the youth of the 80s/90s with TNG worked because it was ultimately a rather optimistic time. I sure know that I felt like as if the 90s were a breath of fresh air. That there were seemingly endless possiblities for the future now that the Cold War was essentially over. This ultimately works with Star Trek's core message. But today? Star Trek's core message of "the future is hopeful" won't work anymore. Hence why a lot of shows these days are gritty and dark. And young people have SO much to choose from. I don't think they'll go for Starfleet Academy 90210 on an obscure streaming channel. Especially not internationally.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 9, 2024 18:34:13 GMT
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 13, 2024 4:17:32 GMT
I'm not sure I'd ever call Star Trek obscure but I don't think you are ultimately wrong about luring young fans to Star Trek in the way they are attempting. What's weird about the whole TNG-era type Star Trek doesn't work for younger folks .... is ... I'm pretty sure most of us were young when it came out. I'm open to this series. I'm honestly not trying not to go into it with a negative mindset but I am curious as to how it will work. Since they want to do a different "take" on Star Trek (no ship/station), is it going to essentially be a higher stakes version of Abramsverse scenes during the academy years? I'm not sure. Star Trek: Prodigy is already doing a kick ass story of young Starfleet cadets. I'd go so far as to say it's my favorite post-2017 ST series at the moment. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 13, 2024 17:37:17 GMT
I'm not sure I'd ever call Star Trek obscure but I don't think you are ultimately wrong about luring young fans to Star Trek in the way they are attempting. What's weird about the whole TNG-era type Star Trek doesn't work for younger folks .... is ... I'm pretty sure most of us were young when it came out. I'm open to this series. I'm honestly not trying not to go into it with a negative mindset but I am curious as to how it will work. Since they want to do a different "take" on Star Trek (no ship/station), is it going to essentially be a higher stakes version of Abramsverse scenes during the academy years? I'm not sure. Star Trek: Prodigy is already doing a kick ass story of young Starfleet cadets. I'd go so far as to say it's my favorite post-2017 ST series at the moment. I would call it that, too. It was a wonderful ride. If this SA series could capture some of this, I would enjoy the show. But this show is not going to be that. |
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Post by BeastBoy on Jul 13, 2024 17:55:08 GMT
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Post by nombrecomun on Jul 13, 2024 18:45:52 GMT
Star Trek: Prodigy is already doing a kick ass story of young Starfleet cadets. I'd go so far as to say it's my favorite post-2017 ST series at the moment. I would call it that, too. It was a wonderful ride. If this SA series could capture some of this, I would enjoy the show. But this show is not going to be that. Yep. If it carries with what we've seen of nu-Trek overall then it will angsty moody stuff centered more around dramatic personal issues rather than scifi. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 13, 2024 18:54:42 GMT
No, it's not. It's entirely a new thing. |
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I am so sorry...