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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 11, 2024 19:06:27 GMT
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Post by nombrecomun on Feb 11, 2024 19:45:08 GMT
My first Trek BBS was Trekweb. The guy who last ran the site(Gustavo?) started to slowly check out of things Trek. He said that the newer material just wasn't Trek that he knew. This has to be around a decade ago now. I can't imagine what he would think of Trek today.
Similarly, I watch current Trek and read articles like this and I find myself checking out as well. It simply does not interest me. I understand a longstanding franchise has to continually evolve to cater to new generation of fans but it would be nice if it kept what the franchise was all about to begin with.
Oh well.....
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 12, 2024 1:41:44 GMT
My first Trek BBS was Trekweb. The guy who last ran the site(Gustavo?) started to slowly check out of things Trek. He said that the newer material just wasn't Trek that he knew. This has to be around a decade ago now. I can't imagine what he would think of Trek today. Similarly, I watch current Trek and read articles like this and I find myself checking out as well. It simply does not interest me. I understand a longstanding franchise has to continually evolve to cater to new generation of fans but it would be nice if it kept what the franchise was all about to begin with. Oh well..... Everything wrong with Trek right now is in the likes of Lower Decks and Picard; nostalgia just to do it, and insufferable characters. |
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Post by MrPicard on Feb 12, 2024 6:29:23 GMT
If they make this show, it will end up with the same fate ENT had - fans yelling about wanting something new because been there, done that. Nostalgia only gets you SO far before it gets boring. There's a difference between making one season of a show as nostalgia bait and making a whole show solely based on "what legacy character are we having NOW".
And yeah, Matalas just seems desperate at this point. It must be frustrating as hell to have this weird cult following in the fandom that hails him as the "savior of Trek", and Paramount does exactly nothing about it.
And yup, they managed to kick me out as well with what they did to Jean-Luc. I am no longer interested in anything Jean-Luc Picard, and THAT is one hell of an accomplishment.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 12, 2024 17:33:35 GMT
If they make this show, it will end up with the same fate ENT had - fans yelling about wanting something new because been there, done that. Nostalgia only gets you SO far before it gets boring. There's a difference between making one season of a show as nostalgia bait and making a whole show solely based on "what legacy character are we having NOW". And yeah, Matalas just seems desperate at this point. It must be frustrating as hell to have this weird cult following in the fandom that hails him as the "savior of Trek", and Paramount does exactly nothing about it. And yup, they managed to kick me out as well with what they did to Jean-Luc. I am no longer interested in anything Jean-Luc Picard, and THAT is one hell of an accomplishment. I just don't see how it goes anywhere. If you're calling it a legacy show (and they are, and so is he, and that seems to be what he wants to do)--where do you go with it? Is it a greatest hits reel? Do you find ANOTHER Doomsday Machine? Does the crew get drunk and almost die from gravity-infused booze water again? We have Seven and whoever else wants to port over from other Trek? Do we have weekly epilogues where the senior officers hang around the captain's private observation deck in comfy chairs, sipping brandy while they talk a little about this week's episode, but mostly it's a chance to play, "Hey, remember when...?"so the fans can get that hit of dopamine? Are we just going to do, "Lower Decks" ramped up to 15? (because I already think LD does the nostalgia references at 11) Are we gonna live up to the name and try to catch up on every single TNG person, because, I gotta admit, I haven't spent a lot of time wondering what happened to Simon Tarses or any of the crew Okana sexified when he was there. I found this unneeded at best and appalling character assassination at worst just on 10 episodes? What kind of clown show would 50 episodes be. Really, their work had a TON of flaws, but, after Matalas, I really don't want to hear about how bad Orci/Kurtzman were anymore. |
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Post by MrPicard on Feb 13, 2024 6:39:31 GMT
I agree - it would only be a re-hash of Trek's previous greatest hits; and the fandom might be clamoring for this now, but we also have to look at which PART of the fandom is clamoring for this. It's those who view Matalas as the savior of the Trek franchise. The same people who think Kurtzman ruined it. The same people who rip everything to shreds that they don't like. Youtubers who will make endless videos about the tiniest "canon violations". TMatalas would have to deliver constant quality at 100% in their eyes. No one can do that. He would anger them at some point, sooner or later, and then they would turn on him and rip his work to shreds. It would be his own fault, of course - he invited them back in with his bootlicking attitude towards them.
"Whatever happened to this character?" works incredibly well in a fan fic if you write it in an interesting way that makes sense and makes the character part of the story instead of the story being a part of the character, but that's exactly what a television show CANNOT do. You HAVE to build your story around the character if it's a legacy character because "OMG LEGACY CHARACTER LOOK LOOK", and if your interpretation of the character is weird (I'm still baffled by Matalas' interpretation of the TNG characters, it's like as if he watched a completely different show, but then I'm guessing his interpretation is based on the fact that he basically turned a fic he wrote when he was a teenager into canon) or based too much on what the actor behind the character thinks (Sir Patrick, anyone), things will derail quickly and people will be left wondering what the hell is going on here.
Part of me almost wants for him to make the show and fail spectacularly so that he never tries anything like that again. lol
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 13, 2024 16:24:52 GMT
I agree - it would only be a re-hash of Trek's previous greatest hits; and the fandom might be clamoring for this now, but we also have to look at which PART of the fandom is clamoring for this. It's those who view Matalas as the savior of the Trek franchise. The same people who think Kurtzman ruined it. The same people who rip everything to shreds that they don't like. Youtubers who will make endless videos about the tiniest "canon violations". TMatalas would have to deliver constant quality at 100% in their eyes. No one can do that. He would anger them at some point, sooner or later, and then they would turn on him and rip his work to shreds. It would be his own fault, of course - he invited them back in with his bootlicking attitude towards them. "Whatever happened to this character?" works incredibly well in a fan fic if you write it in an interesting way that makes sense and makes the character part of the story instead of the story being a part of the character, but that's exactly what a television show CANNOT do. You HAVE to build your story around the character if it's a legacy character because "OMG LEGACY CHARACTER LOOK LOOK", and if your interpretation of the character is weird (I'm still baffled by Matalas' interpretation of the TNG characters, it's like as if he watched a completely different show, but then I'm guessing his interpretation is based on the fact that he basically turned a fic he wrote when he was a teenager into canon) or based too much on what the actor behind the character thinks (Sir Patrick, anyone), things will derail quickly and people will be left wondering what the hell is going on here. Part of me almost wants for him to make the show and fail spectacularly so that he never tries anything like that again. lol How it's going to go is that the fans praising him now because "they got what they wanted" will shred him because they think they can get what they want, and they all kind of want different things. People have different visions of what these legacy characters should do and be. Once they're getting this sort of thing weekly, they're going to start making demands and then picking it apart when those demands aren't met and met the way they personally expect. That's what happens when you try to cater too much to your audience. And that's the only too Matty has in his bag. I think the ship has sailed on doing it. Too much time has passed between production and airing to begin with. If it was a thing that could happen it would have been announced by now. And that's not even factoring in that a Paramount that is, quite literally, BEGGING to be bought isn't going to add another $150M project to the balance sheet. As for Sir Patrick-- I have much respect for the man in many avenues, but someone should have told him "No." |
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Post by MrPicard on Feb 14, 2024 7:15:00 GMT
Exactly my point - he now thinks the fans love him and he can't do anything wrong, but he would be proven wrong on that, and FAST. It was just a massive coincidence that his idea for PIC season 3 brought enough nostalgia and LOOK LOOK THE TNG CREW!!!! to soothe the angry voices of those who had wanted for PIC to be this precise show from the beginning. He simply gave them the basic thing they wanted, and they were so starved for it that they were willing to overlook the flaws. This wouldn't happen with a new show. They would have demands and ideas and as soon as those would no longer line up with Matalas' ideas (which would be pretty quickly), they would ditch him and turn him into the next devil alongside Alex Kurtzman.
This is why I think it's a massive shame PIC didn't just continue with its course. It was not good, not by any means, but it at least was its own show. (Much like Disco's first season.) The third season is just nostalgia bait combined with a plot a 13 year old wrote as a fan fic a long time ago.
As for Sir Patrick... I've always disagreed with him when it comes to Jean-Luc Picard, I've always said we'd end up shouting at each other if we got to discuss him, and now I was shown exactly why that is so. His ideas for the character are based on a weird picture he has in mind that is based on the public image of Jean-Luc, not on what he was actually like on TNG. Someone should have told him that. But no one had the guts because they feared he'd walk out on them if they didn't give him what he wanted. But honestly? I don't think so. It always depends on HOW you say something. He IS a hothead, he WOULD have stormed out at first but then he would have actually thought about it and probably sat down and watched an episode and realized that the people were right.
Back when he did TNG he was super involved in the character, they were combined into one person at some point. He's chasing after that image... but he's forgotten what that Jean-Luc was actually like. So it's no wonder that his interpretation now doesn't line up with what we saw on TNG. You can't write an older Jean-Luc without remembering what a younger Jean-Luc was like. I mean you CAN, but it won't make any sense.
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 16, 2024 18:05:55 GMT
I have no interest in watching Legacy. I F*ing hate the Enterprise-G, I F*ing hate the super fast promotion of 7 of 9, I freaking hate the out of left field Jack. I hate all of it. I HATE THAN G+D+MED F*ING LIGHTING!!! SOME ON TURN ON A DAMN LIGHT!!!!
You know what I would have rather had, After spending all that money rebuilding the Enterprise-D set, I wouldn't mind a Jonathan Frakes led show on The Enterprise-D. Make the AGT Enterprise come to pass. Give Riker the Enterprise-D, Upgrade it with the Cloaking device, 3rd nacelle, and super duper shield armor piercing beam cannon. They could even made 7 of 9 HIS 1st officer. Raffe could be the Helm. If you must have Jack, make him chief of security. But I don't want to see that ugly, piece of garbage Titan, as the Enterprise-G. I rather pause the letters and go back to D. Again, sup-it up. That way, Riker could finally have "A shot at that chair". And return it to episodic format like Strange New Worlds.
More, going back to the Enterprise-G, WHO THE FLYING MONKEY POO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA? !!! Seriously, an ugly ship that's not well armed, that can't pay a power bill, that has a stardrive that looks like a Vorlon helmet is an Enterprise now? With the Exception of the Enterprise-A , When an Enterprise was launched, it was the most advanced top of the line model. The NX-01, the Ncc-1701, The Ncc-1701-B, The Ncc-1701-C, The Ncc-1701-D, The Ncc-1701-E, And even the ugly Ncc-1701-F were the top of the line most advanced at their time vessels. I couldn't help but think of that shot of the Enterprise-D and Titan in orbit around Earth in the debris field side by side, thinking how Elegant the D looks beside the atrocious ugly kit bash looking garbage of a design.
I do not want Star Trek Legacy. IF you want to blow money, I rather have a 20 episode season of Strange New Worlds.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 16, 2024 19:16:19 GMT
I have no interest in watching Legacy. I F*ing hate the Enterprise-G, I F*ing hate the super fast promotion of 7 of 9, I freaking hate the out of left field Jack. I hate all of it. I HATE THAN G+D+MED F*ING LIGHTING!!! SOME ON TURN ON A DAMN LIGHT!!!! You know what I would have rather had, After spending all that money rebuilding the Enterprise-D set, I wouldn't mind a Jonathan Frakes led show on The Enterprise-D. Make the AGT Enterprise come to pass. Give Riker the Enterprise-D, Upgrade it with the Cloaking device, 3rd nacelle, and super duper shield armor piercing beam cannon. They could even made 7 of 9 HIS 1st officer. Raffe could be the Helm. If you must have Jack, make him chief of security. But I don't want to see that ugly, piece of garbage Titan, as the Enterprise-G. I rather pause the letters and go back to D. Again, sup-it up. That way, Riker could finally have "A shot at that chair". And return it to episodic format like Strange New Worlds. More, going back to the Enterprise-G, WHO THE FLYING MONKEY POO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA? !!! Seriously, an ugly ship that's not well armed, that can't pay a power bill, that has a stardrive that looks like a Vorlon helmet is an Enterprise now? With the Exception of the Enterprise-A , When an Enterprise was launched, it was the most advanced top of the line model. The NX-01, the Ncc-1701, The Ncc-1701-B, The Ncc-1701-C, The Ncc-1701-D, The Ncc-1701-E, And even the ugly Ncc-1701-F were the top of the line most advanced at their time vessels. I couldn't help but think of that shot of the Enterprise-D and Titan in orbit around Earth in the debris field side by side, thinking how Elegant the D looks beside the atrocious ugly kit bash looking garbage of a design. I do not want Star Trek Legacy. IF you want to blow money, I rather have a 20 episode season of Strange New Worlds. At least I can say that Seven has enough career history to justify being moved to the big chair. What's Ensign Nepo-Pirate got? As for that ship? I could live with it better if they actually said it was a kitbash. "The fleet needed a class of modular workhorses. This is it." It's still pretty bleh, but then I can appreciate it a little bit for what it is. But it doesn't LOOK like what Matalas wants it to be. And I said when the finale aired, give me 15 seconds less of the literally pointless and literally meaningless Shrike and build a new Enterprise, even if you just refit the D. But fanboy had to have the design he liked be the new E. |
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Tundra
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Post by Tundra on Feb 16, 2024 19:36:42 GMT
, And even the ugly Ncc-1701-F were the top of the line most advanced at their time vessels.. Agree on everything else, but I gotta defend the F. In my opinion, the most beautiful Enterprise of the lot. It mixes the sleek, military focused lines of the E with the more pleasant and rounded shapes of the D perfectly. It actually looks like the natural successor to the older Enterprise classes, and it’s huge. Really sucks they only pulled it out for what amounted to a cameo. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 16, 2024 19:59:22 GMT
I don't hate it, but I don't love it.
It's an E tho, so I should love it.
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Tundra
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That is not drunk which be eternal dry. Yet with strange brewing, even beers imbibe.
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Post by Tundra on Feb 16, 2024 20:02:22 GMT
What do you mean by, it’s an E?
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 16, 2024 20:08:12 GMT
What do you mean by, it’s an E? It's an Enterprise. It should have a certain elegance, a certain "sleek" to it that this kitbash doesn't possess. Even the D, which I've never been a huge fan of, has some elegant angles to show off. |
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Tundra
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That is not drunk which be eternal dry. Yet with strange brewing, even beers imbibe.
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Post by Tundra on Feb 16, 2024 20:10:14 GMT
Oh I see, but surely the F is plenty elegant as is? And it’s not a kitbash model.
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Post by MrPicard on Feb 17, 2024 7:34:11 GMT
Ensign Nepo-Pirate has famous Starfleet parents, which is apparently now all it takes to get your kid into Starfleet AND onto the most prestigious ship. Because - guess what - this is how it works in what is basically a teenager's fan fic come to life. (I should know. I was writing fan fic just like that when I was a teenager. Wasn't about Starflett, granted, but it had the same kind of nonsensical logic behind it.) And yet the same people who raged ENDLESSLY about Michael Burnham just BREATHING in a Starfleet uniform ("SHE HAS NO BUSINESS BEING BACK IN STARFLEET!!!!") ate this up without any complaints. It boggles the mind.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 17, 2024 18:44:39 GMT
Ensign Nepo-Pirate has famous Starfleet parents, which is apparently now all it takes to get your kid into Starfleet AND onto the most prestigious ship. Because - guess what - this is how it works in what is basically a teenager's fan fic come to life. (I should know. I was writing fan fic just like that when I was a teenager. Wasn't about Starflett, granted, but it had the same kind of nonsensical logic behind it.) And yet the same people who raged ENDLESSLY about Michael Burnham just BREATHING in a Starfleet uniform ("SHE HAS NO BUSINESS BEING BACK IN STARFLEET!!!!") ate this up without any complaints. It boggles the mind. He didn't even DO anything of note in S3. I mean, I can see if, say, he pulled a Spock, and, without hesitation, vaulted into the engine room and saved the ship and the crew. Then I could see Starfleet saying, "Under extraordinary circumstances, this guy came through in spades. This is the kind of guy Starfleet wants." But he really didn't do anything but tag along and get victimized by the Borg. And the cherry on top of his placement for me is that swagger onto the bridge like they're all bros and he belongs there. Hell, at least I can argue that Michael did things to earn her way back. And she never acted like she didn't have to earn that place back. Nepo-Pirate is all, "Of COURSE I belong here. I mean, really, I kinda wanna ask why I'm not the XO right now." |
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Post by MrPicard on Feb 19, 2024 6:09:18 GMT
But HE IS JEAN-LUC PICARD'S SON!!! Never mind that his mother raised him to be a complete brat (what else would you expect from someone like Crusher tho, they got THAT one right). We HAVE to have him on the bridge of a starship. There is NOTHING ELSE he would want. So, of course his parents pull all the strings they can get and he sits on the bridge without ever having done anything.
Imagine Wesley's face when he sees that. "I had to literally save the ship a zillion times before I was made an ACTING ensign and this dude just walks in and because he's Picard's biological son he gets everything thrown at him??? WTF???"
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Post by scenario on Feb 19, 2024 17:02:10 GMT
But HE IS JEAN-LUC PICARD'S SON!!! Never mind that his mother raised him to be a complete brat (what else would you expect from someone like Crusher tho, they got THAT one right). We HAVE to have him on the bridge of a starship. There is NOTHING ELSE he would want. So, of course his parents pull all the strings they can get and he sits on the bridge without ever having done anything. Imagine Wesley's face when he sees that. "I had to literally save the ship a zillion times before I was made an ACTING ensign and this dude just walks in and because he's Picard's biological son he gets everything thrown at him??? WTF???" Nepotism at its worst. |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 19, 2024 17:19:48 GMT
But HE IS JEAN-LUC PICARD'S SON!!! Never mind that his mother raised him to be a complete brat (what else would you expect from someone like Crusher tho, they got THAT one right). We HAVE to have him on the bridge of a starship. There is NOTHING ELSE he would want. So, of course his parents pull all the strings they can get and he sits on the bridge without ever having done anything. Imagine Wesley's face when he sees that. "I had to literally save the ship a zillion times before I was made an ACTING ensign and this dude just walks in and because he's Picard's biological son he gets everything thrown at him??? WTF???" Hell, Wesley is easily the better man. The kicker in my mind's eye: Wesley pops in and Bev looks him up and down, slightly puzzled, "You seem familiar. Do we know each other? Would you like to meet my son?" |
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Post by MrPicard on Feb 20, 2024 7:01:27 GMT
I mean Crusher used nepotism already when she pressured Jean-Luc to finally allow Wesley on the bridge (would he have listened to a random civilian about their kid? I don't think so) - but at least Wesley, for all his faults, really was a talented guy and contributed to things and helped... unlike Nepo-Pirate whose only contribution it is that he's the son of two Starfleet officers. Honestly if I was an ensign who had just gone through all of the tedious Academy without taking the nepo fast track I would be VERY miffed at his mere presence on the bridge.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 20, 2024 19:45:29 GMT
I mean Crusher used nepotism already when she pressured Jean-Luc to finally allow Wesley on the bridge (would he have listened to a random civilian about their kid? Maybe. Jean-Luc loved children and was so thrilled to be commanding a ship full of them, he let Riker handle it because he just couldn't trust himself to do his job because he's so wrapped up in spending time with the kids.  |
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Post by SherlockHolmes on Feb 21, 2024 16:14:35 GMT
, And even the ugly Ncc-1701-F were the top of the line most advanced at their time vessels.. Agree on everything else, but I gotta defend the F. In my opinion, the most beautiful Enterprise of the lot. It mixes the sleek, military focused lines of the E with the more pleasant and rounded shapes of the D perfectly. It actually looks like the natural successor to the older Enterprise classes, and it’s huge. Really sucks they only pulled it out for what amounted to a cameo. I mean, Its better looking than the G.....I even like it better than the C. But I cannot get over its straight on forward profile. It looks horrible if you are looking at it head on. And you are right, it has more pleasant curves than the E. But like I said, it loses that at a straight on forward view. Its still way better than the G. The sensor dome hanging so low makes it look dumb, and the Stardrive literally looks like a Vorlon helmet (especially the 2nd Kosh Vorlon look), and really doesn't match the rest of the design aesthetic. I also hate the saucer rim. It literally looks incomplete like pieces are missing (Kinda like the 'Intrepid' from "Enterprise"). I hate that, |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 23, 2024 15:07:52 GMT
My first Trek BBS was Trekweb. The guy who last ran the site(Gustavo?) started to slowly check out of things Trek. He said that the newer material just wasn't Trek that he knew. This has to be around a decade ago now. I can't imagine what he would think of Trek today. Similarly, I watch current Trek and read articles like this and I find myself checking out as well. It simply does not interest me. I understand a longstanding franchise has to continually evolve to cater to new generation of fans but it would be nice if it kept what the franchise was all about to begin with. Oh well..... Everything wrong with Trek right now is in the likes of Lower Decks and Picard; nostalgia just to do it, and insufferable characters. I can't stomach LD, and PIC S1 was the only one I consider halfway watchable, until the Romulan incest twins showed up... |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 23, 2024 15:10:38 GMT
But HE IS JEAN-LUC PICARD'S SON!!! Never mind that his mother raised him to be a complete brat (what else would you expect from someone like Crusher tho, they got THAT one right). We HAVE to have him on the bridge of a starship. There is NOTHING ELSE he would want. So, of course his parents pull all the strings they can get and he sits on the bridge without ever having done anything. Imagine Wesley's face when he sees that. "I had to literally save the ship a zillion times before I was made an ACTING ensign and this dude just walks in and because he's Picard's biological son he gets everything thrown at him??? WTF???" So sick of crappy 'lovable rogue' characters; that's more a Star Wars thing, not Star Trek. Star Trek doesn't do them well, at all. |
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Feb 23, 2024 15:16:42 GMT
But HE IS JEAN-LUC PICARD'S SON!!! Never mind that his mother raised him to be a complete brat (what else would you expect from someone like Crusher tho, they got THAT one right). We HAVE to have him on the bridge of a starship. There is NOTHING ELSE he would want. So, of course his parents pull all the strings they can get and he sits on the bridge without ever having done anything. Imagine Wesley's face when he sees that. "I had to literally save the ship a zillion times before I was made an ACTING ensign and this dude just walks in and because he's Picard's biological son he gets everything thrown at him??? WTF???" Hell, Wesley is easily the better man. The kicker in my mind's eye: Wesley pops in and Bev looks him up and down, slightly puzzled, "You seem familiar. Do we know each other? Would you like to meet my son?" Meanwhile, in PIC's equally-awful second season, her real son is now a host on the galaxy's wackiest new game show, "You Too Can Be a Demigod!" |
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 23, 2024 18:22:04 GMT
Hell, Wesley is easily the better man. The kicker in my mind's eye: Wesley pops in and Bev looks him up and down, slightly puzzled, "You seem familiar. Do we know each other? Would you like to meet my son?" Meanwhile, in PIC's equally-awful second season, her real son is now a host on the galaxy's wackiest new game show, "You Too Can Be a Demigod!" And he's just doing his lines like that after-show. It's...not good. |
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Post by MrPicard on Feb 24, 2024 14:59:29 GMT
How do the young ones say it today?
"That whole scene is so cringe".
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Feb 24, 2024 20:32:43 GMT
How do the young ones say it today? "That whole scene is so cringe". It really is. Briones acts circles around him and the whole thing feels like he's trying too hard to get her to see going into his windowless van as a good idea. |
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Post by MrPicard on Feb 26, 2024 17:16:41 GMT
Well, at least one "good" thing came out of all this for Wheaton... there's now a Crusher kid that's even MORE annoying than Wesley ever was. lol
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I am so sorry...