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Post by ashleytinger on Jul 15, 2023 2:01:45 GMT
Hey guys, what do you think about that? I think as I'm getting older that canon is something I care less about, especially with almost 60 years of history behind it.
I'm too enamored with SNW to get up in arms about it.
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 15, 2023 2:03:39 GMT
Hey guys, what do you think about that? As we've sort of touched on here, there is no TOS cannon to ruin. This is a different timeline. The Romulan that killed Kirk said so. No matter what anyone tries to do, the Federation happens and Kirk, Spock and all the rest are born, and impact the galaxy more or less as they always did. All a temporal baddie can do is prune the edges of the timeline, so, what I think is is that his premise is flawed to begin with. The original TOS timeline was destroyed long before SNW got here.
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Post by scenario on Jul 15, 2023 2:34:37 GMT
TOS was the universe where the Eugenics Wars happened 30 years ago. DSC, SNW and everything after takes place in the universe they happened in the mid-21st century. "Tomorrow and Tomorrow..." essentially hard-baked that notion into Star Trek's temporal soufflé. But...does that mean this new universe might see Spock & Chapel growing old together and maybe even Pike getting a reprieve, or is that too much? I really doubt that Pike avoids the chair since that's been such a lynchpin of the character as far back as 57 years now...... But I would happily forgive TPTB if they let him dodge that bullet. No one deserves that fate, and a man like him least of all. Finish the series with Pike in the chair and Chapel a basket case. Enterprise has TOS crew. Then Miniseries. 3 to 5 eps. Setting, year 4 TOS. Number 1 finds a cure for Chapel and with the help of the crew not on the Enterprise they find a cure for Pike. They break the law and help Pike and everyone on the Planet. But Spock still doesn't remember loving Chapel. Fast forward to after the TOS Movies, Spock recovers those memories and goes and finds Chapel and they marry. The end.
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Post by scenario on Jul 15, 2023 2:40:56 GMT
Hey guys, what do you think about that? As we've sort of touched on here, there is no TOS cannon to ruin. This is a different timeline. The Romulan that killed Kirk said so. No matter what anyone tries to do, the Federation happens and Kirk, Spock and all the rest are born, and impact the galaxy more or less as they always did. All a temporal baddie can do is prune the edges of the timeline, so, what I think is is that his premise is flawed to begin with. The original TOS timeline was destroyed long before SNW got here. Its not TOS Prime Timeline anymore. So many time travelers have messed with it, its Prime v60+. But all the major characters are still there, just changed a little. Once you fully embrace time travel stories, change is inevitable.
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Post by RobinBland on Jul 15, 2023 3:51:40 GMT
Hi lovelies! It’s late and I’m drunk and my friends have warned me to never post while I’m drunk.
So (oooops) I’m just going to say… isn’t Jess Bush fantastic in this episode? I mean, they all shine but HOW GOOD.
Okay, g’night. X
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Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 15, 2023 4:02:35 GMT
She is every kind of wonderful.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 15, 2023 16:28:43 GMT
On nombrecomun question. In my opinion Chapel / Spock relationship was suggested in TOS but never spell out on the show. It is us the fans who have make more of it that it actually was. On "Amok Time" the whole demeanor and behavior of Chapel while taking care of Spock, kind of let you into something. That said, I DO believe Spock and Chapel on TOS have feelings for each other. SNW in building-up on it to give us the context that TOS didn't. A massive retcon, but a good one. I watched the show as a kid and I always thought it was obvious that Chapel loved Spock by the way she looked at him. However, it never seem that the reverse was true. Fair. If you go to TOS it is hard to find that there. That's why I said that it is a believe, I take it on faith. If something should be there then something must be there. Chapel tenderness and commitment for Spock well-being should have had some kind of reciprocity from him. But, you are right, the show give us nothing about that. Maybe that alternate "timeline fix" that SNW is attempting as you have suggested. Could it be that time travel agents are effecting tiny changes to the timeline that little by little alter TOS characters and events, like Spock and Chapel relationship? I like that theory.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 15, 2023 16:42:26 GMT
Hey guys, what do you think about that? I think as I'm getting older that canon is something I care less about, especially with almost 60 years of history behind it.
I'm too enamored with SNW to get up in arms about it.
I agree. I used to be a canon freak. Not anymore. Someone said on Twitter that on Trek the word canon does no longer seems to be viable. He proposes to instead switch to use "mythos". Often canon evoke notions of divisiveness, thee against thou sort of behavior. But still it is valid to defend, in my humble opinion, that Trek means something, stand for something. Maybe the idea of mythos sticks to the idea of the "spirit of Trek": the dream, the adventure, the aspirational drive, the thought engine, the engagement with the present, etc... This sort of mythos ideation suggest to me that ST:PIC was very flawed because it danced around canon to bust it with a nostalgia-sentimental rush but contributed nothing to Trek spirit.
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 15, 2023 16:44:48 GMT
Hi lovelies! It’s late and I’m drunk and my friends have warned me to never post while I’m drunk. So (oooops) I’m just going to say… isn’t Jess Bush fantastic in this episode? I mean, they all shine but HOW GOOD. Okay, g’night. X No amount of intoxication can distract us from the fact that Jess Bush is indeed the star of this show. She really shines and I am utterly entrance.
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Post by scenario on Jul 15, 2023 17:48:30 GMT
I think as I'm getting older that canon is something I care less about, especially with almost 60 years of history behind it.
I'm too enamored with SNW to get up in arms about it.
I agree. I used to be a canon freak. Not anymore. Someone said on Twitter that on Trek the word canon does no longer seems to be viable. He proposes to instead switch to use "mythos". Often canon evoke notions of divisiveness, thee against thou sort of behavior. But still it is valid to defend, in my humble opinion, that Trek means something, stand for something. Maybe the idea of mythos sticks to the idea of the "spirit of Trek": the dream, the adventure, the aspirational drive, the thought engine, the engagement with the present, etc... This sort of mythos ideation suggest to me that ST:PIC was very flawed because it danced around canon to bust it with a nostalgia-sentimental rush but contributed nothing to Trek spirit. There are different types of cannon to me. Vulcans have green blood was well established in TOS. Changing that is sloppy and serves no purpose. TOS was made in the 1960s so setting WWIII in the 1990's was far in the future but close enough to seem real. Now that the 1990s are decades in the past it means ST is not our future its an alternate timeline so later shows pushed WWIII forward. Things that looked cool and futuristic 60 years ago look silly and cheap now. Some parts of cannon need to change or ST becomes irrelevant to younger people. Other things can't change or its not ST anymore. The problem is people disagree on what falls into which category.
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Post by nombrecomun on Jul 15, 2023 17:49:30 GMT
Gia Sandhu is my "RAWR". Wow!
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Post by Yorick on Jul 15, 2023 20:04:54 GMT
Hey guys, what do you think about that? Yes, SNW is in its own timeline, separate from the one that we saw in 60s. It’s either wholly independent on in a branch created by Borg timey-whimey shenanigans. Now let’s get some amazing and worldly SF writers in to let its makes its mark. Can it be the legend of some of its forebears? Only time will tell… (ow! Bad writing!)
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Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 16, 2023 3:15:54 GMT
Gia Sandhu is my "RAWR". Wow! Unbelievable! A beauty for the ages. I am getting 90's Halle Berry vibes from her. To use boricua guy jargon, "una jeva durísima".
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Post by Tupperfan on Jul 16, 2023 3:43:51 GMT
All this. In my world, it’s just not the same universe. Pretty much. It all diverged around "First Contact." Even possibly before, as stated by that Romulan time-traveller, who had been waiting for Khan for 30 years...
EDIT: Should have read the rest of the thread,
Also, lots of crushes of that show: People are stunning and acting amazingly well.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 16, 2023 15:41:18 GMT
TOS was the universe where the Eugenics Wars happened 30 years ago. DSC, SNW and everything after takes place in the universe they happened in the mid-21st century. "Tomorrow and Tomorrow..." essentially hard-baked that notion into Star Trek's temporal soufflé. But...does that mean this new universe might see Spock & Chapel growing old together and maybe even Pike getting a reprieve, or is that too much? I really doubt that Pike avoids the chair since that's been such a lynchpin of the character as far back as 57 years now...... But I would happily forgive TPTB if they let him dodge that bullet. No one deserves that fate, and a man like him least of all. I wonder if that could be the series' 'reward' for fans (or slap in the face, depending); the last episode of the last season sees reality splitting off--with one version of the crew entering the TOS series of events, while the "prime" crew (the one we've been following so far) goes off into a different reality; one where SpoChapel happens, and one where (just maybe?) Pike avoids the chair.
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Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 16, 2023 15:42:29 GMT
Hi lovelies! It’s late and I’m drunk and my friends have warned me to never post while I’m drunk. So (oooops) I’m just going to say… isn’t Jess Bush fantastic in this episode? I mean, they all shine but HOW GOOD. Okay, g’night. X *clink* Cheers.
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Post by nombrecomun on Jul 16, 2023 18:35:21 GMT
I really doubt that Pike avoids the chair since that's been such a lynchpin of the character as far back as 57 years now...... But I would happily forgive TPTB if they let him dodge that bullet. No one deserves that fate, and a man like him least of all. I wonder if that could be the series' 'reward' for fans (or slap in the face, depending); the last episode of the last season sees reality splitting off--with one version of the crew entering the TOS series of events, while the "prime" crew (the one we've been following so far) goes off into a different reality; one where SpoChapel happens, and one where (just maybe?) Pike avoids the chair. That would be cool. I feel it's kinda odd to have a series around Pike as a main character....of sorts.....and avoid some of the established things for him. I'm fine with the Abramsverse notion that he gets paralyzed but still has a functioning role in Starfleet. It doesn't have to go the very sad way of The Menagerie. The big 'but' to this is that at some point Pike does exit in some form giving Kirk his entry. Maybe that's still way down the road. 10 years?
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