|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 3, 2023 21:30:03 GMT
Here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 4, 2023 23:48:36 GMT
Maybe this one is the one about taking drugs to reach Nirvana.  |
|
|
|
Post by ashleytinger on Jul 6, 2023 15:26:23 GMT
Well it was ALMOST an Ortega episode. I mean it was but it wasn't. It was definitely interesting. I knew we were coming back to Rigel from the preview but I liked the twist on the episode. Solid again.
Also, had to look it up
Lotus-Eaters Figuratively, 'lotus-eater' denotes "a person who spends their time indulging in pleasure and luxury rather than dealing with practical concerns". Also In Greek mythology, the lotus-eaters were a race of people living on an island dominated by the lotus tree, a plant whose botanical identity is uncertain. The lotus fruits and flowers were the primary food of the island and were a narcotic, causing the inhabitants to sleep in peaceful apathy.
Definitely fits this episode
|
|
|
|
Post by scenario on Jul 6, 2023 23:12:00 GMT
Well it was ALMOST an Ortega episode. I mean it was but it wasn't. It was definitely interesting. I knew we were coming back to Rigel from the preview but I liked the twist on the episode. Solid again. Also, had to look it up Lotus-Eaters Figuratively, 'lotus-eater' denotes "a person who spends their time indulging in pleasure and luxury rather than dealing with practical concerns". Also In Greek mythology, the lotus-eaters were a race of people living on an island dominated by the lotus tree, a plant whose botanical identity is uncertain. The lotus fruits and flowers were the primary food of the island and were a narcotic, causing the inhabitants to sleep in peaceful apathy. Definitely fits this episode I knew watching Hercules movies as a kid would be useful. Classic Star Trek. A story with several messages. |
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Jul 7, 2023 0:14:04 GMT
Good ep. Solid. Not sure if anything immediately jumps out as outstanding or the opposite but I enjoyed it.
|
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Jul 7, 2023 0:19:21 GMT
Well it was ALMOST an Ortega episode. I mean it was but it wasn't. For a moment it seemed like it was going to be a La'an centered ep. Stepping back a bit I realized the narrative jumped between Pike, La'an, and Ortegas. No one character dominated the ep and that's ok by me. I still feel this is a new crew and we could stand to see more ensemble stories rather than single character ep like last week's; a fantastic episode regardless. |
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 7, 2023 13:27:31 GMT
Well it was ALMOST an Ortega episode. I mean it was but it wasn't. ^ That was one of my biggest gripes about it, in fact; it sets up as an Ortegas episode, and isn't. Frustrating. The story felt like one of those Pocket Star Trek paperbacks I used to buy in the '80s and '90s; a decent story, but nothing exceptional. A so-so episode. On the plus side, at least we're not stuck on Rigel 7 for a whole season. I think Star Trek learned its painful lesson in 'chapter' storytelling--it doesn't work for this show. FULL REVIEW WITH SPOILERS!
"Among the Lotus Eaters" isn't much to chew on. |
|
|
|
Post by Yorick on Jul 8, 2023 4:36:15 GMT
Well it was ALMOST an Ortega episode. I mean it was but it wasn't. ^ That was one of my biggest gripes about it, in fact; it sets up as an Ortegas episode, and isn't. Frustrating. The story felt like one of those Pocket Star Trek paperbacks I used to buy in the '80s and '90s; a decent story, but nothing exceptional. A so-so episode. On the plus side, at least we're not stuck on Rigel 7 for a whole season. I think Star Trek learned its painful lesson in 'chapter' storytelling--it doesn't work for this show. FULL REVIEW WITH SPOILERS!
"Among the Lotus Eaters" isn't much to chew on.Yes, I was going to say it was like one of those late 70s anthology books edited by Sondra Marshak and Myna Culbreath, or even a Gold Key comic. But I thought it was a sound adventure story. Can’t help one OCD grip: the yeoman left behind from The Cage days seems to have somehow kept his Starfleet uniform up to date, skipping both of the Discovery versions not to mention the old velour. |
|
|
|
Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 8, 2023 19:19:06 GMT
Great episode! This season is really bringing home the goods. Last week was kind of a step down, but only because they set the bar so high with the 2nd episode that anything else pale in comparison.
So rich episode and like any great Trek (or any great cultural object) it could represent many things and is open to many readings. (With a very high rewatchable index.) For me it is a comment about identity and how memory is tightly link to it. The supporting character Luq carried this episode with ease. Reed Birney infused his character with such an amazing gravitas and tragic undertones that it make me think that Birney understood that he was a the philosophical center of the episode. If a drug or a procedure makes you willingly erase aspect of your life that are key to what makes you you but are very, very painful (the dead of a love one for example) would you go with it? What if pain is also what makes us human? The scrip thread the needle very nicely with Pike future reckoning, because Pike might as well forget the bleak future that await him. But he choose it AND he choose to give it a shot to his relationship with Batel.
A thoughtful, inspiring episode.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 11, 2023 1:22:24 GMT
^ That was one of my biggest gripes about it, in fact; it sets up as an Ortegas episode, and isn't. Frustrating. The story felt like one of those Pocket Star Trek paperbacks I used to buy in the '80s and '90s; a decent story, but nothing exceptional. A so-so episode. On the plus side, at least we're not stuck on Rigel 7 for a whole season. I think Star Trek learned its painful lesson in 'chapter' storytelling--it doesn't work for this show. FULL REVIEW WITH SPOILERS!
"Among the Lotus Eaters" isn't much to chew on.Yes, I was going to say it was like one of those late 70s anthology books edited by Sondra Marshak and Myna Culbreath, or even a Gold Key comic. But I thought it was a sound adventure story. Can’t help one OCD grip: the yeoman left behind from The Cage days seems to have somehow kept his Starfleet uniform up to date, skipping both of the Discovery versions not to mention the old velour. Yeah, I spotted that too. |
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 11, 2023 19:11:15 GMT
I liked it and appreciated the philosophical angle it took; that our everyday selves are somewhat automatic but that it's the deeper, emotional qualities that are at the core of a person. If a person is the sum of their experience, then purposefully and knowingly keeping a population from connecting with theirs is maybe one of the cruelest depictions of an alien society yet seen in Star Trek. It certainly felt very TOS, all the neon-spotted signposting to the Enterprise's return to Rigel VII notwithstanding. (Weren't as tall as we'd been led to believe previously though, were they? Turns out that dude Pike fought back in The Cage was hardly representative.)
All that's certainly worth exploring and it did it pretty well, especially via guest character Luq, who I shuttled between wanting to punch and finding incredibly sympathetic. "Be in the moment" works well enough until we're yanked back down to earth by some major life event.
Where it fell down was logical progression - I was a bit perplexed as to why they had to land the shuttle so far away other than because PLOT says so. Why not just bring a snow camouflage net? (Or 23rd century equivalent.) And surely someone has figured out in x-thousand years since the asteroid impact that if you hide behind some bricks you get your memories back? All the stuff with the Starfleet insignia was all terribly convenient too - one minute it was a signal, the next it was a mistake.
And I really, really hope this isn't the promised Ortegas episode, because I'll feel severely gypped if it is. That character deserves more than "I fly the ship." Although it's fun to see her rediscover this under the duress of a missing memory (and Navia was great), it's not exactly character development; nor does it reveal any new aspect to her.
Seeing Pike almost forget his finer feelings was a perturbing scene.
Bit of a mix then, but enjoyable enough. SNW has mostly been of a really high standard so far so I can forgive it a fair-to-middling episode.
|
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 11, 2023 23:48:28 GMT
I liked it overall. Again, at least planetside it felt like something Kirk would go through.
And Melissa Navia told me specifically last year that she's got two episodes, thought I suspect that counts as one.
|
|
|
|
Post by scenario on Jul 12, 2023 2:00:58 GMT
One of the first things I thought of with this episode was drug addiction. How many people destroy their lives trying to escape pain? Luq wasn't given a choice but he has been living his life in the forever now for years. He's never had any emotional pain that doesn't go away as soon as he falls asleep.
They wanted to be far enough away that no one saw or heard the shuttle land. A shuttle coming from orbit is very noticeable. Over the horizon at least.
I got the impression that the ensigns followers chose the insignia not the ensign. They assumed it was his coat of arms and he didn't argue. He wasn't looking to be rescued and didn't expect to survive long. By the time he took full power it wasn't worth the risk to try to change.
I also thought that the specific rocks he hid behind were special. Not any brick would do. Tough for the serfs to plan a rebellion when they can barely hold a thought in their heads.
|
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 12, 2023 2:02:34 GMT
I liked it overall. Again, at least planetside it felt like something Kirk would go through. And Melissa Navia told me specifically last year that she's got two episodes, thought I suspect that counts as one. Ah, that’s good to know. It was an ensemble episode, even if she got to be the savior of the day. I like the idea of having one story that focuses more on her. What I’m finding an absolute delight about this show is that I really like every single one of the characters and have got caught up in the idea of each of ‘em getting their fair shake of the spotlight. Honestly, I haven’t felt like I was interested in every crew member since Enterprise. |
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Jul 12, 2023 2:24:37 GMT
Honestly, I haven’t felt like I was interested in every crew member since Enterprise. Interesting. Hadn't thought about that. Personally, I don't seem to think there's a need for everyone to have their ep. At least not this early on. But to your point all the characters are quite likeable so it's nice to see everyone get a bit of spotlight. I tend to think she's the least interesting character but I suppose with some development they could make her more interesting. The Andorean engineer was so much more interesting than half of the present crew. |
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 12, 2023 20:37:21 GMT
Honestly, I haven’t felt like I was interested in every crew member since Enterprise. Interesting. Hadn't thought about that. Personally, I don't seem to think there's a need for everyone to have their ep. At least not this early on. But to your point all the characters are quite likeable so it's nice to see everyone get a bit of spotlight. I tend to think she's the least interesting character but I suppose with some development they could make her more interesting. The Andorean engineer was so much more interesting than half of the present crew. That was Michael Piller's big innovation for TNG, wasn't it?... "We tell stories about the characters." YMMV when it comes to which SNW characters may appeal to you personally, but I think they work incredibly well as an ensemble in a way that's not really been seen in the Kurtzman era, at least in terms of live action. (Prodigy did great here, but I think that was down to prodigy's production team who, now they've been cast adrift, clearly had little to do creatively speaking with the head honchos at Secret Hideout.) I like individual characters in Discovery, like Saru, but I'm not that enamoured of the whole crew. In fact, I barely feel like I know them at all. Aside from its total repointing of the title character, Picard suffered from knowing who to spotlight, or even just believing in its own new characters (and the idea that the audience might have made an emotional investment and connection with them). When they finally did bring back the TNG crew, they were barely recognisable. Even Seven underwent some radical personality surgery in S3 to make her fit the plot. I found that to be a horribly disappointing experience. So the fact that every single character in SNW has something going for them is a major win as far as I'm concerned. Even if a plot or script is dodgy, a good performance from a good actor for a character you have an emotional investment in is gonna keep you watching. It makes sense to give Ortegas a turn at the same character development the rest of the crew have received. |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 12, 2023 21:00:03 GMT
I'm very cool with the Piller approach. Everyone likes one or more of these people and they really should all get a moment top shine now and then, particularly if you're marketing them as though they are all part of the main cast.
|
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 12, 2023 22:34:18 GMT
I'm very cool with the Piller approach. Everyone likes one or more of these people and they really should all get a moment to shine now and then, particularly if you're marketing them as though they are all part of the main cast. 👆 This. I learned a lot about storytelling from Piller just by watching the Star Trek shows he presided over. (And by reading those annual Cinefantastique overviews by Mark Altman.) |
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 13, 2023 0:55:57 GMT
Berman, Braga, Behr, Moore, and Piller really are the fathers of modern Trek and everyone working now is still on those foundations to one degree or other.
|
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 13, 2023 3:28:12 GMT
Berman, Braga, Behr, Moore, and Piller really are the fathers of modern Trek and everyone working now is still on those foundations to one degree or other. Couldn’t agree more. |
|
|
|
Post by Garak Nephew on Jul 15, 2023 16:57:56 GMT
A podcaster drew my attention to a poem by Tennyson "The Lotos-Eaters" that might informed this episode. Oblivion is a temptation hard to resist. But a community is eagerly waiting for you, don't let isolation distract you from the pleasures of togetherness.
|
|
I am so sorry...
Jul 14, 2024 1:18:27 GMT