|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 1, 2023 22:07:46 GMT
I am going to see Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny tomorrow with the bairn. This is a big deal because she only really wants to see Marvel movies these days... although recently me and her mother have noted a slight turn away from these (and similar TV shows). Since she turned 18 there's been a slight uptick of interest in other genres. NEWS: she even caught me watching that Aliens-esque S1 episode of SNW the other day and wanted to watch it! Seeing Indy 5 might be to please her old Dad, I dunno... and also nostalgia because we watched the older films when she was little a lot. Anyway... I know, I know, lukewarm reviews and all that, and I'm trying not to look forward to it too much. Go in with low expectations... although I cannot underestimate the pleasure I know I'll get from seeing ol' Harry in a role he clearly loves one last time. Additionally, there is the added thrill of hearing a new John Williams score! I can't add anything here that's been said a million times elsewhere, but... Harrison Ford. What a film star. What a mensch. ... I will add impressions of our experience here tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 2, 2023 19:43:50 GMT
Well...
We loved it!
[Possible spoilers follow, although no plot reveals.]
A first impressions, no-spoiler review follows...
...
It's equal parts nostalgia - the mix of adventure, humor and character moments that you expect from an Indy film - and looking forward, with a thematic undertow of the experiences of aging thread throughout. I thought it worked really well, although I can imagine audiences expecting a big supernatural climx might be disappointed. It's not so much supernatural as science-fictiony, but we'll come to that.
Unlike - say - Picard S3, where the character is virtually unrecognisable compared to how he's been portrayed in the past, this is the same Indy, reassuringly so in a 20-minute teaser set in 1944 and the last months of WWII.
The film doesn't exactly examine the ravages of age, or of the life of an adventurer well lived, but there are moments of heartfelt emotion that arise from some of Indy's regrets, and Harrison Ford is... well, he's perfect. Indy is still a hero, a reluctant one at this age, but he just can't help himself, and the initial world-weariness Ford gives to Indy lends a real emotion to proceedings.
The action set pieces looked a little digital to my eyes in places, but I can accept all that if the performances are there, and we get an utterly superb Phoebe Waller-Bridge as Helena, Toby Jones as her Dad and a couple of other cameos that will tug at your heart strings. Plus there's Ethann Isidore's Teddy, a non-annoying youth sidekick who is charming and actually has an effect on the plot.
If I have a nit, it's that Mads Mikkelsen's Nazi villain Jürgen Voller is played perhaps a little too coldly straight. Mikkelsen is an actor I love, so I was slightly confounded by that, but when you compare him to Paul Freeman's Belloq or Julian Glover's Donovan, it feels like there was room to go a little larger.
The climax is nuts. It's a thematic showdown between Indy's raison-d-être and real life, real life being those we care for and the decisions we made that fuel memories of both regret and pride. I feel there's a cheat of sorts here, because there are things we don't see and are invited to fill in for ourselves via a literal blackout, but it felt like the sort of dramatic about-face that a script needs to pull sometimes to give you the kind of epilogue this film wants to give its title character. It does succeed in doing that, and it absolutely pressed all my buttons the right way, because I was mess in that final reel.
Sometimes, nostalgia if handled with care and as a narrative tool working in tandem with other dramatic elements, can be really effective, as it is here. If this indeed Indy's last hurrah, it's a fine one to go out on.
...
I'm sure I'll see it again and may add further thoughts then.
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 6, 2023 0:32:10 GMT
Well... We loved it! [Possible spoilers follow, although no plot reveals.] A first impressions, no-spoiler review follows... ... It's equal parts nostalgia - the mix of adventure, humor and character moments that you expect from an Indy film - and looking forward, with a thematic undertow of the experiences of aging thread throughout. I thought it worked really well, although I can imagine audiences expecting a big supernatural climx might be disappointed. It's not so much supernatural as science-fictiony, but we'll come to that. Unlike - say - Picard S3, where the character is virtually unrecognisable compared to how he's been portrayed in the past, this is the same Indy, reassuringly so in a 20-minute teaser set in 1944 and the last months of WWII. The film doesn't exactly examine the ravages of age, or of the life of an adventurer well lived, but there are moments of heartfelt emotion that arise from some of Indy's regrets, and Harrison Ford is... well, he's perfect. Indy is still a hero, a reluctant one at this age, but he just can't help himself, and the initial world-weariness Ford gives to Indy lends a real emotion to proceedings. The action set pieces looked a little digital to my eyes in places, but I can accept all that if the performances are there, and we get an utterly superb Phoebe Waller-Bridge as Helena, Toby Jones as her Dad and a couple of other cameos that will tug at your heart strings. Plus there's Ethann Isidore's Teddy, a non-annoying youth sidekick who is charming and actually has an effect on the plot. If I have a nit, it's that Mads Mikkelsen's Nazi villain Jürgen Voller is played perhaps a little too coldly straight. Mikkelsen is an actor I love, so I was slightly confounded by that, but when you compare him to Paul Freeman's Belloq or Julian Glover's Donovan, it feels like there was room to go a little larger. The climax is nuts. It's a thematic showdown between Indy's raison-d-être and real life, real life being those we care for and the decisions we made that fuel memories of both regret and pride. I feel there's a cheat of sorts here, because there are things we don't see and are invited to fill in for ourselves via a literal blackout, but it felt like the sort of dramatic about-face that a script needs to pull sometimes to give you the kind of epilogue this film wants to give its title character. It does succeed in doing that, and it absolutely pressed all my buttons the right way, because I was mess in that final reel. Sometimes, nostalgia if handled with care and as a narrative tool working in tandem with other dramatic elements, can be really effective, as it is here. If this indeed Indy's last hurrah, it's a fine one to go out on. ... I'm sure I'll see it again and may add further thoughts then. I wrote this right after seeing it, and I think I got every point I wanted to make about what I saw in the review. WARNING! MASSIVE SPOILERS!! DO NOT READ IF YOU PLAN ON SEEING "DIAL OF DESTINY" Dial of Destiny is one final hurrah for old times' sake.
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 6, 2023 23:20:02 GMT
Well... We loved it! [Possible spoilers follow, although no plot reveals.] A first impressions, no-spoiler review follows... ... It's equal parts nostalgia - the mix of adventure, humor and character moments that you expect from an Indy film - and looking forward, with a thematic undertow of the experiences of aging thread throughout. I thought it worked really well, although I can imagine audiences expecting a big supernatural climx might be disappointed. It's not so much supernatural as science-fictiony, but we'll come to that. Unlike - say - Picard S3, where the character is virtually unrecognisable compared to how he's been portrayed in the past, this is the same Indy, reassuringly so in a 20-minute teaser set in 1944 and the last months of WWII. The film doesn't exactly examine the ravages of age, or of the life of an adventurer well lived, but there are moments of heartfelt emotion that arise from some of Indy's regrets, and Harrison Ford is... well, he's perfect. Indy is still a hero, a reluctant one at this age, but he just can't help himself, and the initial world-weariness Ford gives to Indy lends a real emotion to proceedings. The action set pieces looked a little digital to my eyes in places, but I can accept all that if the performances are there, and we get an utterly superb Phoebe Waller-Bridge as Helena, Toby Jones as her Dad and a couple of other cameos that will tug at your heart strings. Plus there's Ethann Isidore's Teddy, a non-annoying youth sidekick who is charming and actually has an effect on the plot. If I have a nit, it's that Mads Mikkelsen's Nazi villain Jürgen Voller is played perhaps a little too coldly straight. Mikkelsen is an actor I love, so I was slightly confounded by that, but when you compare him to Paul Freeman's Belloq or Julian Glover's Donovan, it feels like there was room to go a little larger. The climax is nuts. It's a thematic showdown between Indy's raison-d-être and real life, real life being those we care for and the decisions we made that fuel memories of both regret and pride. I feel there's a cheat of sorts here, because there are things we don't see and are invited to fill in for ourselves via a literal blackout, but it felt like the sort of dramatic about-face that a script needs to pull sometimes to give you the kind of epilogue this film wants to give its title character. It does succeed in doing that, and it absolutely pressed all my buttons the right way, because I was mess in that final reel. Sometimes, nostalgia if handled with care and as a narrative tool working in tandem with other dramatic elements, can be really effective, as it is here. If this indeed Indy's last hurrah, it's a fine one to go out on. ... I'm sure I'll see it again and may add further thoughts then. I wrote this right after seeing it, and I think I got every point I wanted to make about what I saw in the review. WARNING! MASSIVE SPOILERS!! DO NOT READ IF YOU PLAN ON SEEING "DIAL OF DESTINY" Dial of Destiny is one final hurrah for old times' sake.I think me and the bairn liked it more than you, Sehlat, even though I agree with every single crit you cover in this seriously great and considered review. Imma come back tomorrow and write more coz I'm in a rush today, but I'll just say that I was in a forgiving mood and the movie hit me in all the right ways, despite that climax. (That's a longer convo!) I think my enjoyment of this instalment is so tied up with many personal reasons that the Indy movies have for me, and that final scene just floored me. I kinda knew it was coming, even though I'd successfully avoided all spoilers. It's far from being a perfect ending, but the fact that I'm still thinking about it five days after I saw it mean something. I think I'm gonna go see it again before it vanishes from theatres. That's something I rarely if ever do anymore...!
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 6, 2023 23:26:13 GMT
This BBC Radio 1 interview is full of all the usual promo junket fluff, but watch it 'til (or skip to) the end. I really wanted to tell Ford this too and it looks like it was unexpected and it shows the guy's gigantic and enormously emotionally intelligent humility. He is amazing. Watch here
|
|
|
Post by Sehlat Vie on Jul 7, 2023 13:29:49 GMT
I think me and the bairn liked it more than you, Sehlat, even though I agree with every single crit you cover in this seriously great and considered review. Imma come back tomorrow and write more coz I'm in a rush today, but I'll just say that I was in a forgiving mood and the movie hit me in all the right ways, despite that climax. (That's a longer convo!) I think my enjoyment of this instalment is so tied up with many personal reasons that the Indy movies have for me, and that final scene just floored me. I kinda knew it was coming, even though I'd successfully avoided all spoilers. It's far from being a perfect ending, but the fact that I'm still thinking about it five days after I saw it mean something. I think I'm gonna go see it again before it vanishes from theatres. That's something I rarely if ever do anymore...! That final scene left me with the appropriate glow, even if the rest was a bit more problematic for me. All the same, it was far from the train wreck of the last one, or the darkly racist nightmare of "Temple of Doom," so for ending the franchise well enough, I give it props.
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Jul 12, 2023 22:05:08 GMT
Gonna skip the discussion since I haven't seen it.
Which brings the issue of should I? It just doesn't seem to be a good movie and I don't like to spend time and money on mediocre stuff.
So....just for ratings sake is it "The Last Airbender" bad(I almost walked out of the theater for that one). Or is it mediocre like any of the latest Jurassic Park and Terminator entries?
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 12, 2023 22:37:29 GMT
I dunno...
Only you can know!
I worried that it would be terrible, but I found a lot to love. It's not perfect and there's things I wish had been done slightly differently, but I enjoyed it a helluva lot more than I do a lot of other big tentpole movies these days. For me, Harrison Ford's performance was worth the price of entry alone.
But, as always, YMMV...
It should be noted that I'm someone who tends to say out loud, "There is only one good Indiana Jones film, and that's Raiders."
In truth, when I rewatched all of them prior to this one, I enjoyed them all way more than any old guy in his mid-fifties has any right to. Even Crystal Skull. I do think that Dial of Destiny is a hell of a lot better than that one, but if you're going to scale it, I find the whole Indy saga way more interesting and involving than most other big movie franchises.
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Jul 14, 2023 5:55:08 GMT
Well....just returned from watching it. I'm dubbing it Indiana Jones and the Dial of Mediocrity. I wasn't expecting much but I heard people saying it's better than Crystal Skull. I can't see that. Ok, maybe a tad bit but not by much. The only part I enjoyed was the last 10-15 minutes of it, when they actually use the Dial.
I kept on screaming in my head with the unbelievable coincidences/contrivances the movie had to do to make the plot go on. Like how in the hell did the Nazis get back to shore after the boat is disabled. For that matter, how the hell didn't the boat freakin' blow up?!! That's a stick of dynamite....with more dynamite on board. Is the boat made of adamantium???!!!! How's the kid just walking around eating his ice cream and the Nazis are just waiting for him to show up?!!! How did the Nazis find them to begin with?!!! Insert Princess Leia scene regarding tracking the Falcon.
There's so much more of that type of sh!t.
An important element that's missing in these last two Indy movies is the practicality of the action scenes. It's all been replaced by CGI and there's goes the weight of it. Anyone remember when Pierce Brosnan surfed that giant CGI wave in Die Another Day? There was something intense when we saw Ford drug around behind and under that Nazi truck in Raiders. It was real. I felt no sense of anything like that when they're on top of the train, the planes, etc...I don't mean to suggest you put an 80 year old Ford under these circumstances but maybe Wombat could have actually ridden a real motorcycle to get on the plane towards the end. It all looks like a cutscene from a Playstation video game.
Ugh....
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 19, 2023 17:49:34 GMT
Well....just returned from watching it. I'm dubbing it Indiana Jones and the Dial of Mediocrity. I wasn't expecting much but I heard people saying it's better than Crystal Skull. I can't see that. Ok, maybe a tad bit but not by much. The only part I enjoyed was the last 10-15 minutes of it, when they actually use the Dial. I kept on screaming in my head with the unbelievable coincidences/contrivances the movie had to do to make the plot go on. Like how in the hell did the Nazis get back to shore after the boat is disabled. For that matter, how the hell didn't the boat freakin' blow up?!! That's a stick of dynamite....with more dynamite on board. Is the boat made of adamantium???!!!! How's the kid just walking around eating his ice cream and the Nazis are just waiting for him to show up?!!! How did the Nazis find them to begin with?!!! Insert Princess Leia scene regarding tracking the Falcon. There's so much more of that type of sh!t. An important element that's missing in these last two Indy movies is the practicality of the action scenes. It's all been replaced by CGI and there's goes the weight of it. Anyone remember when Pierce Brosnan surfed that giant CGI wave in Die Another Day? There was something intense when we saw Ford drug around behind and under that Nazi truck in Raiders. It was real. I felt no sense of anything like that when they're on top of the train, the planes, etc...I don't mean to suggest you put an 80 year old Ford under these circumstances but maybe Wombat could have actually ridden a real motorcycle to get on the plane towards the end. It all looks like a cutscene from a Playstation video game. Ugh.... Ah, sorry you didn't enjoy it. I think you're absolutely right about the action scenes. They had none of the flair and brilliant composition of the Spielberg film equivalents. I mean, the giant rolling ball and truck chase or Flying Wing fight from Raiders, the mine car chase in Doom, the boat and tank chases in Last Crusade. They're all so memorable. By comparison, the top of the train chase in the opening sequence of Dial was swamped in this kind of digital murk where it was sometimes hard to figure out what was going on - although this is a problem that plagues a lot of modern action sequences to my mind. Compare that sequence to the one in the opening teaser of Crusade with young Indy where he's hopping across train cars and falling into the cages of the zoo animals. You understand everything that's happening. I can barely remember the tuk-tuk chase in Dial's Tangier. What lifted the film for me - and what I'm still recalling - is Ford's performance and his deeper characterisation of Indiana Jones. I really believed in this older Indy, regretful but still heroic, still trying to do the right thing, still fighting Nazis. I do need to see it again, to really place it, but it felt like a more honest outro for the character than the ending of Crystal Skull. For years, I'd say that there was really only one good Indiana Jones film, which for me is Raiders. Which is not to say I don't also really enjoy Last Crusade, which I think is the other genuinely decent one. (I just think the ending is kind of lame.) But I rewatched all four just before Dial and realised how much I like the character, and watching Ford play him, no matter what. Even Crystal Skull. Even Doom, which I think is the one I like the least. So, just seeing him in action and giving him a happy ending of sorts gave me a good feeling as I left the movie theatre. I'll take that, given that most things I see I forget a nanosecond after viewing. I'm just not sure capitalist culture wants stories to be memorable anymore. They just want people to pay money for momentary hits. Everything is fragmentary.
|
|
|
Post by ashleytinger on Jul 19, 2023 20:37:29 GMT
One thing I will say about ANY of Spielberg's films, the man is a master at setting up a scene and tracking actors and letting not only the actor's actions tell a story but the placement and layout as well. Too many films don't plan out their action scenes, even with CGI and rely on quick cuts and nonsense to tide the through. While we had a bit of a mess in Crystal Skull, that was still there, but the weight was taken back a bit because they pushed the limits more with some of the chase sequences and CG there.
Raiders, Jaws, Jurassic Park are all master classes in how you put together framing, action sequences and even tracking actor's through a scene to keep the story and audience engrossed.
|
|
|
Post by nombrecomun on Jul 20, 2023 2:12:06 GMT
What lifted the film for me - and what I'm still recalling - is Ford's performance and his deeper characterisation of Indiana Jones. I really believed in this older Indy, regretful but still heroic, still trying to do the right thing, still fighting Nazis. I do need to see it again, to really place it, but it felt like a more honest outro for the character than the ending of Crystal Skull. I had no problem with his portrayal; a more somber persona given his age. There were some scenes that had that weight of his age on him. For example, when Wombat and the kid are whooping it up after the boat scene only for Indy to remind them that his friend died. That was brilliant....but that was it. There was no follow up to that. None of the other characters seem to have been affected by that emotional opening of a rather closed off character. And then we're off to the next scene completely forgetting this principal character's vulnerability that was ripe for dramatic content. I don't expect Indiana Jones to be drama but there could have been more weighty material given his age and audience. I can't see anyone under 30 bothering with such a movie unless they've been indoctrinated by a parent, you know? I liked the ending of Skull for them. They got married and the adventures continue. Despite all the flaws of Skull that's the one saving grace it had in getting both of them together. This movie robs that by creating a separation(that is only off screen) and by repeating a scene from Raiders when they get back together. Felt very cheap to me. We don't feel that emotional hit of their separation, of their son's death. Ok. I'll just be quiet now.
|
|
|
Post by Prometheus59650 on Jul 22, 2023 17:35:44 GMT
It wasn't without its problems. Vie hits a lot of them in his review. I wanted it to be better than CS and I think it was, but I think Waller-Bridge was probably the weakest part of it. I saw a lot of Vash in there are and I have to say that I didn't like that much since Indy always...always wailed and howled against those types of people.
Also, I can see Indy starting jaded, but at no point does he ever reach a point where---the blood is pumping and heart racing and he's having a real adventure again and Indy was always the guy who, no matter who his adversaries were, or where it all took him, he was, pardon me, always up for going where no man (or at least few) had gone before.
But I didn't dislike it at all. I think I would have liked it a lot more if:
1) Waller-Bridge had been out and Short Round was in. I can just think of all the ways that would have dovetailed with the OT.
2) If they had dedicated themselves to practical effects wherever possible.
While I didn't absolutely love it, I don't think it deserved to utterly crater as it has either.
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 24, 2023 21:36:10 GMT
One thing I will say about ANY of Spielberg's films, the man is a master at setting up a scene and tracking actors and letting not only the actor's actions tell a story but the placement and layout as well. Too many films don't plan out their action scenes, even with CGI and rely on quick cuts and nonsense to tide the through. While we had a bit of a mess in Crystal Skull, that was still there, but the weight was taken back a bit because they pushed the limits more with some of the chase sequences and CG there. Raiders, Jaws, Jurassic Park are all master classes in how you put together framing, action sequences and even tracking actor's through a scene to keep the story and audience engrossed. Completely agree. He's a master of the subtextual (as evidenced by his extraordinary creative relationship with both John Williams and Michael Kahn) but his visual storytelling skills are supreme. I know Crystal Skull gets a lot of criticism for "too much CGI", and it does call attention to itself more than the analog ILM FX do in the earlier films, but you always comprehend exactly what's going on.
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 24, 2023 21:37:14 GMT
Ok. I'll just be quiet now. Next time we're at a party together, I am not going to bring up Indiana Jones.
|
|
|
Post by RobinBland on Jul 24, 2023 21:50:33 GMT
It wasn't without its problems. Vie hits a lot of them in his review. I wanted it to be better than CS and I think it was, but I think Waller-Bridge was probably the weakest part of it. I saw a lot of Vash in there are and I have to say that I didn't like that much since Indy always...always wailed and howled against those types of people. Also, I can see Indy starting jaded, but at no point does he ever reach a point where---the blood is pumping and heart racing and he's having a real adventure again and Indy was always the guy who, no matter who his adversaries were, or where it all took him, he was, pardon me, always up for going where no man (or at least few) had gone before. But I didn't dislike it at all. I think I would have liked it a lot more if: 1) Waller-Bridge had been out and Short Round was in. I can just think of all the ways that would have dovetailed with the OT. 2) If they had dedicated themselves to practical effects wherever possible. While I didn't absolutely love it, I don't think it deserved to utterly crater as it has either. I haven't managed to see it again, which I want to (and that hasn't happened in years), but my impression of her character was that she seemed a bit "out of time." That is, I liked her, but I did get the sense that she was written as more of a 1940s olde worlde adventuress than a child of the sixties. My shopping list of wants for a final Indy movie didn't match up with Mangold's at all - I certainly would've wished for a much larger role for Karen Allen's Marion, who I still think is a huge reason why the first movie is held in such high esteem. I also still feel bemused by where the ending went, but coulda, shoulda, woulda. For me that's actually true of every Indy film since Raiders, so Dial is weirdly in synch with my perceptions of the other three sequels. I think I've come to appreciate the series on those terms.
|
|
Tundra
New Member
That is not drunk which be eternal dry. Yet with strange brewing, even beers imbibe.
Posts: 13
|
Post by Tundra on Feb 8, 2024 1:37:25 GMT
Didn’t get to see it on the big screen sadly, but got it on streaming, and watched the other 4 to get ready for it.
I don’t hate it, but it is lowest on my tier list.
Helena is a pretty grating character for me. Wise-ass, selfish, doesn’t really get good until the final act. Never really felt like she had any chemistry with Indy, just, not even a rivalry but pure one-upmanship. Voller was an okay villain, but bland. And how the hell did he survive taking a steel pipe to head at that speed? If I close my eyes I can still hear the ‘’clonk’’ when the cranium makes contact.
Indy was… Look does Kathleen Kennedy hate Harrison Ford? In two legacy sequels, Harrison Fords beloved classic character was reduced to a sad old man, lost/dead son, estranged wife and is thrown back into the fray by a younger, brown haired, British chick. That last one wasn’t to be sexist, it’s just a weird coincidence.
Still, the opening scene was fantastic, acting was solid all ‘round. A few great moments, but overall I was disappointed.
When I went through the other films, Temple wasn’t actually as good as I remembered. Willie was a lot, but I always loved the standalone adventure feel of it, and it added something to Indy’s character; he started out looking for fortune and glory, not putting things in museums. Crystal Skull was way better than the Internet makes it seem. Yes there’s way too much CGI, but Indy feels like Indy, Mutt works as a good sidekick, he’s no expert like Indy is but he actually takes an interest in the history they’re discovering, and they have really good chemistry when they’re fighting, and don’t know they’re related.
Anyway, I like all the films, just like Dial least. Oh and I ordered an Indiana Jones jacket last week, from the company that made them for the movies. Very excited, but it takes up to a month to make it.
|
|