Episode 3.7 "Dominion" Discussion Thread

That sounds....terrible.

I need to rewatch this one. Got interrupted by work and only half watched it as it played out. I'm mildly annoyed by the enemy taking over the ship trope, but they did kind of set themselves up for this one.

I just can't stand this Dystopia that the new Powers The Be has created. This sucks. THIS SUCKS!!!! This is a sucky show, in a sucky world, with sucky writing, with sucky directing, with sucky producing, with very very very sucky cinematography. Its just...sucky. AND I CANT FREAKIN SEE ANYTHING HAPPENING. Also....Why do the new phasers look like Romulan disruptors? Why do they not use the Dustbuster shaped phasers anymore?


Warning! VERY very Very Angry rant below- Those of you tired of hearing me, skip to the next post because its a long one. :




THIS IS NOT I REPEAT NOT STAR TREK. THIS AINT A FANBOY COMPLAINING ABOUT A NEW DIRECTION OF A NEW SHOW, THIS IS NOT STAR TREK. I CALLED DS9 STAR TREK. I CALLED ENTERPRISE STAR TREK. I EVEN CALLED STAR TREK BEYOND STAR TREK. BUT THIS? THIS IS NOT STAR TREK. STARFLEET IS NOT A DYSTOPIA. THE FEDERATION IS NOT A DYSTOPIA. IF YOU WANT TO CREATE A FUTURE DIFFERENT FROM GENE"S VISION , THEN CREATE YOUR OWN FKING FRANCHISE! NOTHING, ABSOLUTLY NOTHING IS OPTOMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE ANYMORE. I been watching star trek since I was 3 years old. I fell for it because it was different from all other TV at the time. It was interesting. It was family friendly enough for me to be able to watch it. It hate Toys in stores for crying out loud commercials directed at kids. WHAT IS THIS FKING MADNESS? Klingon tits, F-bombs, decapitations, no lights....literally no lights. THERE IS NOTHING DIFFERENT ABOUT STAR TREK FROM NU-BSG, STARGATE UNIVERSE, WALKING DEAD, AND LAW & FKING ORDER. Same stupid crap. same stupid drama, same stupid shaky cam and weird crooked angles. WHY DO WE EVEN HAVE SETS ANYMORE? With the weird angles, camera's putting the background completely out of focus, and darkening the lights, who needs sets? Hell I can see the CGI sets in Star Trek Horizon fanfilm better than I can see the sets in Nu-Trek. I can believe the huge budget they blow on this crap only to hide it. A freakin amatuer could do better with a few thousand dollars, than these morons filming do with Millions. I may sound like a broken record, which I have been for 14 years now. BUT WHEN WILL SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS STAR TREK, WHO UNDERSTANDS THE BEAUTY OF IT, AND KNOWS GOOD LIGHTING TAKE OVER? If it aint DAGGUM LENDFLARES, ITS DAGGUM DARKNESS. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SHAKAREE, VALEN, G'QON, YEVON, TOM CRUISE, OPRAH WINFREY, TRI-FORCE OR ANY OTHER HOLY FIGURE-GET RID OF SECTION 31!!!!!! SECTION 31 SHOULD HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN WHEN THEY KILLED OFF SLOAN. ITS VERY VERY ANTI-STAR TREK.

This was my thought as well as Vadic was doing her recall in the lab. IF(big if) they had sold it as Section 31 and not the Federation I would be able to stomach it. But the show doesn't care to make a difference.

This idea of a dystopian scifi has been its own trop for the last 2 decades, namely since 9/11. We see how ENT changed halfway through its run. We also get BSG and plenty of shows that emulated the tone of BSG without the great writing. It really does target under 40's. Maybe under 30's. 


This nuTrek already feels old compared to that. I would have loved for Picard, being already a throwback to the 90's, to have ushered a swing back to something more optimistic without being naive. The writing is not there. 

Something else had been bothering me for a while(among the many....) but I wasn't able to pinpoint it until now. The whole plot(whatever little there is to it) feels much more appropriate with a DS9 crew and yet not one from that show is on this. I don't count Worf. It feels very shoehorned into this cast. 

If they wanted to go all memberberries then something obscure like that TNG S7's Force Of Nature. What a great way to follow up on a topic that is relevant in our modern world. It could have been TNG's The Voyage Home. No big baddies. No sharp looking bad guy ships.

We have 3 eps left out of a total of 10. All that we've seen so far could have been covered in 3 eps. Tops.

Btw....it feels like they're laying the ground for an Admiral Janeway appearance. 

That seems like it would have basically been common knowledge.

I didn't want to begin with a spiel, so I'll mention upfront how much I'm enjoying Ed Speleers and Ashley Sharpe Chestnut's performances. I think the idea of Jack being Picard and Crusher's son is deeply flawed, but I really like the actor and he has tremendous screen presence and is very likeable. Same for Chestnut, and both together definitely have an enormous chemistry. A win. 

...

However... 

I really disliked aspects of this episode, specifically the scene where Vadic describes her torture in a Starfleet/Federation facility. That left a really a bad taste in my mouth. 

During the Dominion War, someone high up in those institutions condoned the torture of and experimentation upon sentient beings. I guess the same people who created a virus to destroy the Changelings. Arguably, it's wartime, when anything goes (rules of warfare be damned). Vadic's dialogue even references this when Picard calls out the fact that the Changelings started the war, and she somehow assumes the moral high ground because it's necessary for the scene, not because there's a convincing argument. 

But even during the events of DS9, we saw Sisko wrestle with his conscience time and time again, we saw Bashir's horror at comprehending that he's essentially an augment. They remained people of conscience - good people - even in the worst of times, in wartime. They questioned what they did. They pretty much questioned everything. But they did remain true to the ideals of the civilisation they represented. Ideals regularly espoused by Picard, Kirk and Janeway also. Ambassadorial, always and. by and large, peaceful in overall intent. 

Now we're asked to believe that the Federation/Starfleet has had this cupboard of dirty doomsday tricks all the time. Not only that, there were people engaged in fashioning these kinds of weapons all through the TNG/DS9/VOY era and it was never the hopeful future portrayed where it was diplomatic methods first. Maybe Kruge was right about Genesis, all along? Maybe STIII: TSFS was a PR puff piece. Maybe Spock, Picard, Sisko, Janeway et al were deluded, because their so-called ideals were being twisted and distorted, even in this non-scarcity paradise when humanity has supposedly evolved a tiny bit. It's a gigantic ret-con sneaked in as plot detail. 

This sucks. I know it's like that in the real world, but that's not why I was attracted to Star Trek and not why I remained a lifelong fan. 

It's not just the sets that are dark. 

So much for the optimistic future. 

At this rate, the big bad will be revealed to be an embittered Thomas Riker. Or maybe Gul Dukat has returned from Pah'wraith Hell. 

I will, inevitably, watch to the end, but I think I'm at a turning point. The announcement of a Starfleet Academy show filled me with inertia. 

Not sure if I've outgrown Trek, or if Trek has outgrown me.  I still enjoy older episodes, but PIC and DSC (with few exceptions) do very little for me.  

I do enjoy SNW and PRO, yes, but the Academy idea leaves me cold.  No interest.

AND there's going to be "an enemy." They can't just mine what they can from the premise. These Starfleet babies are going to be dealing with a, probably, galaxy-spanning threat to the Federation.

Sigh.

This idea was garbage when Harve Bennet was looking to do it in 1989, and it's still trash.

The episode bored me. I had to watch it it short increments. Commercial were useful since they gave me a marker, "just watch to the next break." I watched it two days ago and can't remember enough about it to comment on.

Star Trek was always a niche product. IMO it was originally made by writers who had nerd tendencies who loved a good story. Now its run by risk averse corporate types. All the meaty material for stories is off limits because people are sick of arguing so they turned to poorly written drama.

NG first started in 87 which was 35 years ago. ST started in 1964, 35 years before that was 1929. Writing styles change. I like several of the new shows. it could be worse.

Society is fragmenting into niches, why not Star Trek? Whatever niche you feel comfortable with, you can find it online. You don't have to talk to the people around you when there's a whole world to choose from.

Network tv is becoming a niche now. Its almost impossible to make something that pleases everyone without making it bland and inoffensive. The only entertainment left that crosses into every niche is sports.

Yes and no. Streaming changes the money equation some because you don't have to make your money in one or two showings. Two of the new shows are cartoons. That cuts expenses. Maybe even have a cartoon series for adults and put you big special effects eps there.

Have one tentpole show get most of the special effects.

Mix and match sets.  Like SNW uses a dressed up discovery set as an alien vessel. SNW visits worlds with 21st century tech. A little makeup and a few props and you've got an alien world. Reuse special effects. People who have to have special effects watch the tentpole show.

You need to coordinate and plan ahead. 

Don't think of Star Trek. Think of Star Treks. Sets are too expensive for one show but what about 3 or 4 shows spread out over several years. Build them so they can be packed up when not needed.  

As I've said, I think some sort of Section 31 is necessary. I also recall, even fairly recently, Michelle Yeoh saying it was pitched to her as Mission: Impossible in Space. That I could buy. That could be fun. That could work. But that's not what I see it portrayed as in Picard.

I can even see S31, with the Dominion War going so terribly that loss was inevitable and the Dominion was openly talking about obliterating Earth, someone on the secret Federation S31 Oversight Committee saying to S31, "Something has to happen. The course of action I'd suggest, is the course of action I can't suggest. But if that suggestion is followed through on and that went public, there have to be S31 people to take the fall."

That makes sense. It's the direst of situations. The Federation knows something has to be done, so its going to turn a blind eye, but it's still done under Federation direction.

But that's not the sense that I ever got from Starfleet and Sloan on DS9. It really felt to me like this was S31's idea and S31's show, Starfleet was doing what it was told by S31 and the whole of the Council knew but just wasn't going to lift a finger, which already suggests that this clandestine agency has a ridiculous amount of power with no oversight or control.

But that isn't what's happening in Picard. No one is against the wall and facing annihilation. This is just S31 doing some sick, Mengele-grade --- because, why not?

Unlike the Changeling virus, it's not arguably justifiable or not, it's just sick.

And if the Federation is that depraved, why should anyone look up to it? Who can look at that and see optimism?